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Old 11-16-2012, 04:04 PM   #1
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Default Recent Drill

Several us were hanging out in an ECP and decided to run a drill for grins and giggles during the down time.

We paced off about 20' - 21' in one of the empty lanes ... put a shooter at one end, and a Contractor armed only with a knife at the other. Shooter used a Level III holster (M9 holstered), Arming Stance Amber, and the knife wielder used a large, single hand opening folder/lock blade. Blade was folded and clipped to a side pocket on our omni-present 511s.

On the command of "Go" the knife only person closed to attack the one with the gun. We ran the drill with different people (there were 6 of us) with each person getting 2 - 3 tries. Outcome: Knife wielder closed and either cut or stabbed the gun holder every time out.

We switched out to a Level II holster and ran the same drill. Same outcomes occurred.

Given the inherent nature of CQC with guns and/or knives ... 20' plus was a very generous starting distance.

I am interested in informed opinions pertaining to our drill and for those inclined to respond "The shooter wasn't any good." kindly keep in mind you are talking about Contractors who are military Vets (mostly Army and Marines) ... all of us have multiple deployments to the badlands of the Middle East (contract requirement) .. . all of us have seen real combat (contract requirement) ... many on a near daily basis ... and all of us are required to weapons qualify a minimum of twice a year at a standard far above that of the US Army. So, stuff the puerile babble if that's all you have to offer.

I am most interested in the opinions of professional Firearms Instructors who teach in the "handguns in real world" vein.

Thanks ahead of time for those who opt to respond in a substantive manner.



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Old 11-16-2012, 04:14 PM   #2
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Are you guys creating standoff as the guy with the knife approaches or are you stationary? If you made a video, I'd like to see it. Might even use it in a class.



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Old 11-17-2012, 10:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by hoovco View Post
Are you guys creating standoff as the guy with the knife approaches or are you stationary? If you made a video, I'd like to see it. Might even use it in a class.
We ran it in an ECP lane with a couple of our SUVs staged for a more realistic feel. Blast containment walls on all sides. We ran the drill static as the idea was not to see if we could out maneuver a knife wielding assailant … just to see what happened when we worked with decent separation.

Video? Too funny!!! I’m just outside of Basra on an installation that does not exist populated by military personnel who aren’t there … you can’t even bring a cell phone onto my non-existent work place.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:14 AM   #4
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Lol. You mean for the war that "ended"? I feel ya there.

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Old 11-18-2012, 01:45 PM   #5
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War that ended ... in this region? War is the steady state norm for here. I have serious doubts these fine folks would know what to do if there wasn't a war brewing 24/7. Lasting peace is an alien concept to them.

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Old 11-18-2012, 02:33 PM   #6
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Mas Ayoob and other self defense experts have demonstrated in court while testifying that 7 yards is not far enough when defending against a n aggressive knife wielder if your gun is holstered. Even gun in hand against the attacker who is moving rapidly from 21 feet is iffy. I have also seen this demo'd on "Self Defense" TV.

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Old 11-18-2012, 02:41 PM   #7
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All this sounds like some serious "Operator" business to me.

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Old 11-18-2012, 08:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
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War that ended ... in this region? War is the steady state norm for here. I have serious doubts these fine folks would know what to do if there wasn't a war brewing 24/7. Lasting peace is an alien concept to them.
My sarcasm doesn't translate well over text.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:00 PM   #9
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My buddy runs a great live fire drill to demonstrate this concept. He sets the target (silhouette) at tactical distance and marks off the same distance behind the shooter. The shooter stands at the ready (gun holstered) with the instructor behind him. The instructor taps the shooter and runs. The shooter draws and fires 3 shots and the instructor stops on the third report. If the instructor makes it to the line the shooter is dead. If all three shots aren't in the kill zone, the shooter is dead. If the gun misfires, the shooter is dead.
At 21' you had best shoot an armed attacker in the engine or computer or they are going to close the gap.
On a related side note I have talked to a cop who put 3 shots in a junkies chest and he kept coming. The guy was so gone on pcp his body didn't even know it was dead. He literally had no heart left when they did the autopsy.



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Last edited by mountainman13; 11-18-2012 at 09:03 PM.
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