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Old 02-09-2009, 02:43 AM   #31
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Warning shot?? LTL shot?? It’s a personal defense weapon stupid not a public service warning device!

Why don’t you just hand over your car keys and your wife?
Now now canebrake. Three warning shots are perfectly acceptable. Two to the chest and one to the head is all the warning someone should need....
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Old 02-09-2009, 03:15 AM   #32
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Now now canebrake. Three warning shots are perfectly acceptable. Two to the chest and one to the head is all the warning someone should need....
Oh I get it now, it's code!
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Old 02-09-2009, 03:18 AM   #33
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I wouldn't use non-, I mean less-than lethal ammo in my home defense gun because with my luck after shooting some punk he would come back with his lawyer and try to sue me because I gave him a wicked bruise.

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Old 06-11-2009, 04:24 AM   #34
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Dillinger has brought up several good points. Especially the fact you should always know your backstop and where you bullets will be traveling.

The show "Best Defense" on Dish Networks Outdoors Channel did a segment over the use of different types of guns in home defense. The normal shotgun actually did very well in their comparisons as the room to room penetrations were minimal.

And I also agree that if a person is illegally entering into my home, they shouldn't be expecting me to fire bean bags at them, but should more concern themselves with possible lead poisoning.

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Old 06-11-2009, 10:44 AM   #35
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If someone breaks into your home, they calculated the risk and decided to follow through. A squirt of pepper spray or a less than lethal shotgun round to "remind" them not to do something they know they shouldn't be doing anyway? No way.

I am not going to try to guess if they just want the cash or if they planned to slaughter me or my kids. They're commited the minute they make entry into my residence knowing full well they are not authorized to do so. High speed lead injection to follow shortly.

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Old 06-11-2009, 02:52 PM   #36
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I sleep with an sks under my bed and a case of brass on my night stand.

Two hunting dogs outside that love to bark at anything near the house and I'm set off in the woods so not many false alarms if ever but I know every time someone comes or the mail is here.

of course I think any home intruder that sees a green laser mounted on my side rail shining down a hallway will think twice if he can still think at all

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Old 06-11-2009, 07:31 PM   #37
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...The term used by law enforcement is LESS LETHAL ammo.
Thank you for pointing that out. LESS LETHAL, not "non lethal" or even "less than lethal". Less lethal is still lethal... people may be (and have been) killed by such rounds even by people trianed in their usage.

I agree with c3shooter and slightly disagree with JD (). Using an unmodified shotgun with birdshot makes for the best home defense weapon for these reasons:

1) Birdshot is less likely (not UNLIKELY, just less likely) to overpenetrate sheetrock walls.

2) It's an effective self-defense weapon for distances up to 15 feet.

3) It's pleasing to the jury to show you "used a bird gun" as c3shooter put it, instead of an "evil assault weapon" as a left-wing liberal whacko would put it.

4) You don't have to say a word. If you want to "warn" the intruder, simply rack a shell into the chamber. Every bad guy in the world knows what a .12 guage sounds like, and it's quite intimidating. Cops have broken up rowdy bar fights by simply racking a .12 guage pump. You don't get that sound... that awesome, manly sound from any other weapon. Charging a ma duece doesn't sound as intimidating as a .12 guage pump. If the intruder isn't scared off by your racking the shotgun, then they MEAN to do you harm, and you SHOULD kill them.

So forget the beanbags, rubber balls, etc, and just use lead. Having been through less lethal training, I couldn't see where I'd ever use it. Less lethal is still "deadly force".
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Old 06-11-2009, 07:45 PM   #38
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Thank you for pointing that out. LESS LETHAL, not "non lethal" or even "less than lethal". Less lethal is still lethal... people may be (and have been) killed by such rounds even by people trianed in their usage.

You don't have to say a word. If you want to "warn" the intruder, simply rack a shell into the chamber. Every bad guy in the world knows what a .12 guage sounds like, and it's quite intimidating. Cops have broken up rowdy bar fights by simply racking a .12 guage pump. You don't get that sound... that awesome, manly sound from any other weapon. Charging a ma duece doesn't sound as intimidating as a .12 guage pump. If the intruder isn't scared off by your racking the shotgun, then they MEAN to do you harm, and you SHOULD kill them.

So forget the beanbags, rubber balls, etc, and just use lead. Having been through less lethal training, I couldn't see where I'd ever use it. Less lethal is still "deadly force".
Indeed, it is a proven fact that BG's and enemy forces are afraid of shotguns. A 99.9% strike rate and large target strike area at close to medium distance, lots of tissue damage, and usually body parts are missing and flying around.

And all of you who would use pepper spray for a defense, apparently you have never used it in a closed area, like a house. Hell you will be running for the door right after the BG to get away from the sh!t and get outside. It will take a few hours to dissipate from the area, if not a while longer. I hope your family has a lot of tissues and eye flush available. I personally would rather clean up blood splatters.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:52 AM   #39
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Yeah, I'm fresh out of pepper spray. There may be a CS grenade or two left in the bottom of the ruck......

Simply put- IMHO- there is NO humane way to SHOOT and STOP anybody with anything that will do the job 100.0000% of the time. If there were, it would have been in use for years. And generally, when SHTF, you have one chance to get it right.

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Old 06-12-2009, 01:23 AM   #40
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My personal definition of less than lethal is a misplaced round that did not hit center of mass for some reason.......




I would advise that if you really wanted to stick with less than lethal defensive tools, the tried and true heavy shot of pepper spray / CS spray would be somewhat effective. You would need something that could produce a solid stream of the nasty stuff (10 second stream at a minimum) for the purpose of follow on sprays.

My bottom line is I would never recommend less-than-lethal tools as primary home defense.

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