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Old 09-08-2010, 02:05 AM   #31
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M14, can we agree to disagree? We both agree that nothing replaces proper firearm safety. Our opinions on the function of a safety do differ but if you refer back to what we agree on and the first rule of firearms safety, we have common ground. I fear our conversation could go on forever. Your thoughts?

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Old 09-08-2010, 02:43 AM   #32
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If there are any lefties out there I can say this. Buy a gun that is intended for a left handed person. Do not try to reach the safety on a right handed gun with your left hand. That is a great oportunity to accidentaly slip your finger into the triger guard and well...you get the picture.

Word on that. Using the USP lefty, I hate having to drop the slide/release mags with my trigger (or middle) finger, especially mag changing on the run. Always been ultra-careful while doing so, but still it gives me a pretty iffy feeling. Can't be very comfortable for the ROs running alongside either...another reason why the MP has such appeal.
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:56 AM   #33
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M14, can we agree to disagree? We both agree that nothing replaces proper firearm safety. Our opinions on the function of a safety do differ but if you refer back to what we agree on and the first rule of firearms safety, we have common ground. I fear our conversation could go on forever. Your thoughts?
What? You don't want to have conversations with me anymore?

But, of course we can disagree. The world would be boring as hell if we all agreed, all the time.

But did you read my blue post?
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:08 AM   #34
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Hazard mitigation is a two-way street. The safest design married with intensive training will always be your best bet.
I watched this particular operation conducted literally thousands of times over 20 years, so I know it can be done safely. The subject of this video was the supervisor. There is no accounting for those moments when you are sprinkled with Dumb-ass Dust and things go to Hell in a handbasket. All you can do is build against it and hope that the training arms the person with the situational awareness to keep him or her from screwing up. You won't find a jet set up like this anymore. They are built with the human factor in mind. I wasn't there, but 2 friends of mine were within 50' of this event.

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Old 09-08-2010, 10:42 AM   #35
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What? You don't want to have conversations with me anymore?

But, of course we can disagree. The world would be boring as hell if we all agreed, all the time.

But did you read my blue post?
Yes I did. I personally don't see the firing pin block and drop safety as relavent here because once the trigger moves they are negated which to me brings us back to the trigger safety issue. This is when I decided to call a truce.

You mentioned grip safeties being unreliable and it got me thinking. Am I the only one who checks these things? When I have a weapon apart for cleaning I typically inspect everything at the same time and this includes safeties. Again, not that I would trust my life to them but I do my best to make sure they are functioning properly.
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:27 PM   #36
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You mentioned grip safeties being unreliable and it got me thinking. Am I the only one who checks these things? When I have a weapon apart for cleaning I typically inspect everything at the same time and this includes safeties. Again, not that I would trust my life to them but I do my best to make sure they are functioning properly.
That is the difference between a "Gun Guy/Gal" and the general "Gun Owner". I have close friends who consider themselves "Gun people", but cannot detail strip their own guns. A couple can barely field strip them.

Chuck Yeager says one of the things that made him a great pilot was a burning desire to understand how every system on the plane he was flying operated. He understood how they worked as well as the engineers who built them. I think gun owners would benefit from the same desire.

Too many people have no idea how, or why, their guns work. So they have faith that their safeties will always work.
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Old 09-12-2010, 04:44 PM   #37
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I forget who said it but "Keep your booger-hook off the trigger!".
NICE! This here's my safety.... (right index finger bent and twiching)
Firearms training is inherently dangerous. Know where your finger is, and know where the muzzle is pointing- 1911, Glock, or super soaker.
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:37 AM   #38
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Super-soaker, that's good. Not really thinking we need to practice firearm safety for that family of weapons, do you really?

I mean, even air-soft and spring-driven plastic beebee thingies should be handled with safety in mind.

But a super-soaker? You must be jesting. I need not joust on this, though.

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Old 09-13-2010, 02:13 AM   #39
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NICE! This here's my safety.... (right index finger bent and twiching)
Firearms training is inherently dangerous. Know where your finger is, and know where the muzzle is pointing- 1911, Glock, or super soaker.
To me the point of a physical safety is not to prevent the intentional pull of the trigger, it's to prevent the accidental pull of the trigger. So while you say your finger is your safety, I say that's only a single stage safety on the operator. The gun in question has a reliable mechanical safety (mechanical safety in that, the gun will not fire unless the trigger is pulled) but the operator must have a safety as well. Unintentional movements happen, relying solely on training to prevent those movements is unsafe IMO, training and a proper physical safety on the equipment is a better choice IMO.

I leave my Glock without a round in the chamber. Yes it will take me a second longer to get the first shot off, but I guarantee I will not accidentally fire my Glock. I leave my 1911 chambered but with the safety on, switching the safety off is quicker than chambering a round in the Glock but still a step that delays that first shot, but IMO that extra step is worth the delay for the added safety.

These are firearms stored in my home not carry weapons which might require different conditions of carry.
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:08 AM   #40
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Its

Keep your booger hook on the bang switch.....

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