Negligent Discharge. This is not a rare occurrence. - Page 3
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:35 PM   #21
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I have highlighted my responses to your comments in Blue.

I have called a blind faith in a mechanical safety idiotic. Murphy's law dictates that a mechanical safety will fail at the moment it is most needed. Relying on one is "bad jou-jou". And then I gave some examples of why. I also gave some examples of one of the largest Police Agencies in the Country and issues that they encountered over the years.

I agree with you on this but I still believe an active safety offers more in the way of weapon safety then a passive one.
On the surface that seems reasonable. But if it is broken down farther, it is not reasonable. When a gun is handled safely, the safety can be either Active or Passive. But unsafe gun handling will eventually lead to an ND, no matter how many safeties there are. This all goes back to safe gun handling. Reliance on a manual safety to keep a gun from "going off" gives the user a false sense of security. I have seen too many people to count do unsafe things with a loaded gun, and their justification is always the same, "The safety is on".

And do not mistake a passionate belief in safety (and fairness), for a lack of calm. When people intentionally misrepresent something, I speak up. ND's were common for years and years before the Glock was even invented.

I am not trying to intentionally misrepresent anything. In fact I do my best to have some knowledge about a subject before I make a statement. You clearly know more about glocks then I do but I am not ignorant of the weapon.
In the past when you have stated that the Glock only has a single safety on the trigger, I have corrected you. I assumed you would read the responses to your posts, as I always do.

I have pointed out several times in the past (other Glock threads) the built in, passive safeties of the Glock pistol and how they work. So unless you don't read threads before responding, you have ignored that information, but I assure you it is true. You just again mentioned above "a weapon having more then the lone safety being on the trigger", but I think you really do know that Glocks have some pretty solid safeties built in. You just like to stir the pot, which is perfectly OK.

I honestly steer away from most glock threads so please explain to me what safety a glock has outside of the one found on the trigger. I am not one to stir the pot but I do like a good discussion.
You actually have posted (at least once time) in several different Glock posts that I am aware of, and your comment about the single safety of the Glock is common. But the Glock has three mechanical safeties. The trigger safety is designed to keep the trigger from moving in the event the pistol is dropped. It is referred to as the "Drop Safety", and it works as designed. It keeps inertia from moving the trigger. The second safety is a standard type of firing pin block. This safety is only disengaged when the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear. Until that happens a solid block of steel is in the path of the firing pin. The third safety also blocks the firing pin. It uses the sear plate to capture and block the firing pin. The sear plate is a part of the trigger bar, and as the trigger is squeezed the sear is drawn to the rear, freeing it from a tight slot (like a wedge, but in the shape of Oklahoma). As this happens, the sear contacts the tail of the firing pin (which is spring loaded) and pulls it to the rear, (exposing the sear plate to an open box/wedge that allows it to safely move out of the way of the firing pin). As it nears the end of it's travel the trigger bar contacts the trigger connector which essentially cams the trigger bar down into the frame (allowing the sear to drop into the previously mentioned box/wedge area). When it cams down, the sear plate releases the spring loaded firing pin, allowing it to travel forward past the now depressed firing pin block, to fire the pistol. But until the trigger is pulled, the sear plate completely blocks the tail of the firing pin, keeping it from traveling forward. Once the pistol fires, the cycling slide has another cam surface that "resets" the trigger connector. This puts the whole thing back into the path of the firing pin again.

Yet in several of your past posts you go out of your way to point out that Glocks only have the trigger/drop safety, which is not true.

Again, please explain this.
[COLOR="Lime"]Please see above.[/COLOR]

Spitty, I am comfortable debating gun safety with you or anyone else on FTF until the cows come home.

I am also comfortable combating the outright lies and ignorant misrepresentations people tell about Glocks (or other products) until the cows come home.

I am even one of those oddballs that does not mind the Series 80 safety in my 1911's. It is a safety that works to block the firing pin, and does it effectively AND passively. Pre-Series 80 models (of which I own many) are not as safe as series 80's. Most every modern pistol uses some version of this type of firing pin block, including the Glock.

So, unless someone squeezes the trigger, or causes the trigger to be pulled through carelessness and negligence, on a Glock it will not go off. Pure, and simple.

This is true for any weapon but what prevents me from holding a glock by the slide and pushing the trigger with my other hand? Would the weapon not go off? Try this with with any weapon that has a backstrap safety or manual safety and the weapon will not fire. One would truely be an idiot to actually try that with a loaded weapon, it was only to make a point.
I get the visual, but don't think it makes any sense. In a hypothetical world, yes, but in the real world, no. Many guns will fire if that exercise is completed. Grip safeties are notoriously finicky, and unreliable. 1911's have had them for 100 years, and it is fairly common that they don't work. Usually to the shock of the gun owner who had no idea their grip safety was not working. I have had them malfunction in Uzi's, too. But I don't have enough experience with the XD's to comment on them. 1911 thumb safeties are also commonly worn to the point of no longer working as intended.

Any gun is only as safe as the person holding it. Making excuses (based upon the company that made the gun) that allow for unsafe gun handling is not smart. (See how I avoided the word Idiotic?)

So, Spitty, I invite you to read what I wrote in it's entirety and see if you think anything I have said is wrong. If you think it is, let's discuss it. Show me what I wrote that is wrong. Anyone?

If standing up for what I believe is right is "single handedly turning this into a pissing contest", I'm flattered.

Maybe some people just don't like being called out on their agenda? People tell all kinds of lies about Glocks. All I do is my best to combat those lies with facts.

Glocks also have the standard "Out Of Battery" safety common to most semi auto service pistols.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:49 PM   #22
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Firearms safeties are the cause of many arguments. We as a people are becoming increasingly dependent on technology to keep us safe. Residential alarm systems have replaced self reliance, a strong body and a good gun. ABS and the latest generation of radar activated automatic brake systems and lane use warning systems have replaced paying attention to your damn driving. Automatic brakes on elevators have replaced using the damn stairs, etc.

When you become dependent on a device for your safety, you will eventually be harmed. Training will help to give the person the proper "tools" to use the mechanical device safely. When an officer had little or no firearms experience prior to attending the basic academy, they will be ill equipped to safely handle a dangerous device, be it a firearm or car for that matter.

COMMON SENSE IS UNCOMMON!

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Old 09-07-2010, 05:58 PM   #23
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This argument will never end. Just agree to disagree. Everyone have their preference, that is why there are so many different guns (or other stuff) available. Let us just accept our differences and rejoice that we have a choice(s).

What works for me might never work for anybody else...odd but that doesn't make it wrong.

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Old 09-07-2010, 06:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Firearms safeties are the cause of many arguments. We as a people are becoming increasingly dependent on technology to keep us safe. Residential alarm systems have replaced self reliance, a strong body and a good gun. ABS and the latest generation of radar activated automatic brake systems and lane use warning systems have replaced paying attention to your damn driving. Automatic brakes on elevators have replaced using the damn stairs, etc.

When you become dependent on a device for your safety, you will eventually be harmed. Training will help to give the person the proper "tools" to use the mechanical device safely. When an officer had little or no firearms experience prior to attending the basic academy, they will be ill equipped to safely handle a dangerous device, be it a firearm or car for that matter.

COMMON SENSE IS UNCOMMON!

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Old 09-07-2010, 06:37 PM   #25
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I don't think there is any more ND's with glocks than there is with Sigmas, 1911, BHP, SA XD ect.....

It all comes down to the douche bag holding the weapon. It has to. Because a gun sitting on the a table doesn't just go off. a gun in a holster just doesn't go off. There HAS TO BE Human intervention for a firearm to fire.

I am surprised more ND are not heard about with LEO's these men and women carry every single day. After time you get complacent it happens to everyone. Sorry but there is no safety in the world that can prevent all ND unless you go through a process to fire.

Worlds safest gun.

1. Draw
2. Computer voice would you like to draw your firearm?
3. Voice command yes.
4. Holster releases
5. would you like to activate the round in the chamber?
6. voice command yes or no.
7. Would you like to fire your weapon?
8. voice command
9. Are you sure?
10. Voice command Yes
11. Ok you are going to fire your gun, again are you sure?
12. Yes fire the dam gun already.
13. Sorry the anger in your voice requires that I disable the firearm, ammo, and call HQ for orders then Stun you at the same time. Please stand by.

I work hard not to be that way because I fear having something happen. I had safe handling beat into my head from 6 years old.

1. pick up gun.
2. point in safe direction.
3. open action and check for ammo.
4. If mag present remove and place in safe place out of arms reach.
5. finger in chamber to check for ammo.
6. One more visual inspection of the chamber and action area.
7. had to person or continue to handle.

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Old 09-08-2010, 12:21 AM   #26
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If there are any lefties out there I can say this. Buy a gun that is intended for a left handed person. Do not try to reach the safety on a right handed gun with your left hand. That is a great oportunity to accidentaly slip your finger into the triger guard and well...you get the picture.

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Old 09-08-2010, 12:26 AM   #27
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I can't remember which thread it was on now, but there was an LEO showing his "Glock 40" to a high school group and at the very moment he was telling everyone how "there is nobody in the room professional enough to handle a Glock 40," BOOM he shot the floor.

It was almost funny, the irony.

Anybody remember the thread or the video?

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Old 09-08-2010, 01:15 AM   #28
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I can't remember which thread it was on now, but there was an LEO showing his "Glock 40" to a high school group and at the very moment he was telling everyone how "there is nobody in the room professional enough to handle a Glock 40," BOOM he shot the floor.

It was almost funny, the irony.

Anybody remember the thread or the video?
It was a DEA Agent, and he shot himself in the leg. Oops.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:18 AM   #29
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He was a fed and he shot his leg. Negligence and carelessness both apply here.

Here is the video

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Old 09-08-2010, 01:25 AM   #30
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Quote:
Negligent Discharge
My wife hates when I do that too, but hey... I want to get to bed early sometimes too.
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