Need help dealing with newbie shooters on my range - Page 5
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Training & Safety > Need help dealing with newbie shooters on my range

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-18-2013, 12:02 AM   #41
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Rick1967's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Clifton,Colorado
Posts: 4,160
Liked 1839 Times on 1025 Posts
Likes Given: 1214

Default

I am a businessman. I totally see where you are coming from. I manage a hotel. I was the first hotel in my city to go all non smoking. It pissed off most of the smokers. But most people don't know that 80% of hotel fires are started by smokers. If I can save one person's life I don't care how many people I piss off doing it.

If you are talking about reviews on google, you as a business owner have the ability to respond to the reviews. If I were you I would respond to all of them explaining that you have seen people holding a gun with their thumb behind the slide...stuff like that. Let them know you are just looking out for them. You can also actively solicit your good customers to go to the site and leave a positive review. If you get enough good ones it will bury the bad ones.

__________________

Romans 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Rick1967 is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 12:48 AM   #42
Supporting Member
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Sniper03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,219
Liked 2561 Times on 1251 Posts
Likes Given: 1287

Default

I guess I would agree with the Range Club concept. And range time fees. And in order to use the range they had to attend a safety class instructed by one of your instructors who have been hand picked are good people persons and good instructors but still have the element of firm but fair when it comes to enforcing safety rules and on the range. Just because one is very good with his weapon does not make him a good instructor, it is a gift! All new shooters would have to attend the class at a determined amount of time including weapon safety, range safety, function and operation of thier weapon. There is nothing wrong with a brief safety film but normally they do not cover the actual handling, operation and supervised firing of the weapon. I think it is best done by a competant instructor perhaps using a power point presentation and then actual instruction on the range supervised by the instructor or instructors depending on the number of students. Most people if you make it interesting will not object to a good safety program if it is made interesting. Being an oldtimer I would not object! I have learned you always learn something or are refreshed to something you forgot. As far as members abusing range time have them sign up for scheduled time intervals and put a max on the sessions to offer openings on range time for others. Of course if the range was open they could sign up for a period of time on the spot but once again not excessive. I also think maybe because you are very busy that you come across a little short at times. I am guilty of that myself at times and have to use caution in this area. Being a weapon instructor myself the last thing I want to do is come across inpersonable or short. It causes bad feelings and totally eniahlates the learning process. Unless it calls for me to be very blunt as in a severe range safety violation. Then the person need to know it will not be tolerated. If the get PO so be it. We also have a serious responsibility. But being short or inpersonable with no cause creates hard feelings and lost business as well as bad publicity. Most of the time if a person is a total jerk in the first place and gets PO and talks bad about you. Most other people know the type person they are listening to anyway "A Jerk"! But most people are very good and we may also misunderstand their actions that may only occurr from being uncomfortable or nervous from being new. I have found the majority of new shooters to be very attentive. Good Luck!

03

__________________

The Constitution is not an instrument for the Government to restrain the people. It is an instrument for the people to restrain the Government!
*Patrick Henry

Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

-- John F. Kennedy


Last edited by Sniper03; 07-18-2013 at 12:53 AM.
Sniper03 is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 04:16 PM   #43
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 445
Liked 235 Times on 142 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Default

The folks who arrive at the range with weapons cased, people you had seen before, usually never bothered me. Guys with their girlfriends, carrying a Python or Desert Eagle from the car into the store, laughing and loud, well I didn't want to be anywhere near them. I got tired of newbies and their muzzle sweeps, obnoxious behavior, kids wandering, someone picking up a weapon from your table while you are shooting. I moved out into the sticks and now have plenty of timber to shoot in. I would probably get grumpy and short with people as well. Yes education is the key, and customer service is important, but a gun store isn't the same as buying a pizza or shopping at target. The old "Customer is always right" bs can get another customer killed.
My only other thought is this-If you are a crank but concerned about safety, then so be it. Worst case, if I lost 30% of my customers who refused to follow my guidelines, and I could still keep the doors open, then I would do it my way.

__________________
GTX63 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 04:34 PM   #44
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
John_Deer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,132
Liked 1592 Times on 1089 Posts
Likes Given: 555

Default

I think the OP should visit other ranges with an open mind. See what they are doing to asses how much safety training a shooter requires.

There is a small LGS near here. They have good prices and will get what you need. But the owner of the shop is safety anal. The shop has less that 300 square feet of floor space in the showroom. When you get 6 or 7 people in there you can not examine a gun without pointing it at someone. Hell you can't lay it down on the counter without sweeping someone. After the owner complained about the way I handled guns in his shop one too many times I told him where to get off and never returned.

__________________

Nothing in the affairs of men is worthy of great anxiety - Plato

John_Deer is offline  
therewolf Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 05:39 PM   #45
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
flybuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 184
Liked 62 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Lot's of good suggestions given. My 2 cents, see if you can find an experienced shooter who is retired and might volunteer as a range officer occasionally trading some discounts.
An instructor might also volunteer some time for this if you allow him to try and sell training to the newbies (softsell only).
Good luck--only other advice, we've all been newbies at some point..try and remember what that was like for you and treat the customers accordingly. They'll always be a few buttheads but most shooters are conscientious and want to do what's right and safe.

__________________
flybuddy is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 12:05 AM   #46
disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED...
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DrFootball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Northern Arizona(Fmr. NYC & L.I.)
Posts: 7,715
Liked 3167 Times on 2151 Posts
Likes Given: 689

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Deer
I think the OP should visit other ranges with an open mind. See what they are doing to asses how much safety training a shooter requires.

There is a small LGS near here. They have good prices and will get what you need. But the owner of the shop is safety anal. The shop has less that 300 square feet of floor space in the showroom. When you get 6 or 7 people in there you can not examine a gun without pointing it at someone. Hell you can't lay it down on the counter without sweeping someone. After the owner complained about the way I handled guns in his shop one too many times I told him where to get off and never returned.
You mean You didn't Tell Him your MOS and Sing 4 bars of The "Ballad?" ;-)
told some idiot something to the effect of If you weren't hovering behind me to see what I was doing so you could "conversate" with me to impress your GF & Her Brother how smart you are, You wouldn't have been close enough to get "swept" with an Empty "92" (his GF showed up with him Wearing Shorts showing a more then acceptable Expanse of "lower Cheeks" and a Halter top w/ built in support pushing out her cleavage,..which you should know better then to dress like that at a Range...) not to mention he knew next to nothing about the Ruger SR .40 he bought and was shooting......
__________________
askdrfootball@gmail.com

"The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will." Vince Lombardi

"No One, and I MEAN NO ONE Craps on me and Gets away with it!!! Those days are gone...
DrFootball is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 02:13 AM   #47
No Longer a NY Resident.
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
kfox75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Erie County PA,
Posts: 2,519
Liked 1577 Times on 964 Posts
Likes Given: 8166

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangello View Post
[wonders if there are strippers willing/qualified to work as RSO's...]

funny thing 'Gello, two of the female members of the R&H club my wife and I belong to are employees of the local gentleman's club, working to pay their way to a Master's degree. One of the member's daughter, who just joined us, was a cheerleader for our local NFL franchise. All 3 are very safety conscious, well spoken, highly educated, and somewhat distracting............. , but, back on subject.

GSO,

I have seen some excellent ideas posted here. enough so that I think your solution lies in the preceding 5 pages worth of posts. One I did not see is do you have a friend or family member who meets your safety standards, who would be willing to take over the day to day operations of the range? If not that, one of the above who is retired and looking for something productive to do? Or as someone else on here said, trusted customers who could be utilized as volunteer RSOs, as this could help to lessen the strain on you of running 2 seperate businesses under one roof. You would still retain some say as to who is allowed, bot it would also be balanced out with them have an equal ability to say yay or nay.

Liability waivers are a good idea, especially in conjunction with cameras and RSOs. This way, you can concentrate more on your storefront, and customer service. This would also give you the time to deal with Q&A with new shooters, and the ability to send them over to talk with and set up instruction with your Rangemaster and RSOs. This in turn, will take some of the strain off of you, and cut down on negative reviews.

You seem like a decent person, hard to tell with just written words, but you do. it might just be the stress is getting to you a little, which can and does affect interaction with others. Please give the above suggestions some consideration. They are coming from someone who worked customer service for over 20 years, and who ran a small business for 15 years (in addition to managing 2 more part time while running his own), so I know the level of stress you are under. Basically, I don't think you are a d!ck, I just think you are stretched too thin right now. Find someone you can trust and pass them the reigns for a little while.

Best of luck with this, and keep us posted.
__________________

Is it better to do the right thing for the wrong reason, or to do the wrong thing for the right reason? If you do the wrong thing for the right reason, is it still the wrong thing?

Si vis pacem para bellum.

To those who wish to take away our Second Amendment rights. What will you do when we, all 100,000,000 of us, stand as one, and say no?

kfox75 is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 03:28 AM   #48
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Pasco Cty.FL
Posts: 6,581
Liked 2493 Times on 1422 Posts
Likes Given: 1945

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by txpossum View Post
While I appreciate your commitment to safety, I might get the wrong impression and be offended if I were questioned as to my suitability to shoot on a range; and what if, even though experienced, the way I have held my gun for fifty years isn't the way you expect it to be held?

I agree 100% that a person should feel safe at the place they shoot at. Mebbe a free "membership" to your range, with the requirement that EVERYONE watch a short video, or attend a short range orientation class.

To my mind, the best safety feature is having a range officer monitor the shooting line and enforce safety rules, and do the old "ready on the right, reading on the left, ready on the firing line" type of commands.
You are losing a LOT of business, and pissing people off.

Don't want to run a public range? Then WHY do people perceive it as such?

It's hard to find a close public range, and it's "abrasive" to raise

peoples expectations, then deny them shooting time based on

your arbitrary decision as to their experience.



DON'T want to run a range? THEN shut it down.

Because you will wind up with trouble, if you keep waving

a tempting opportunity to shoot under people's noses, then

yanking it away from them at the last second.


IMHO, you need to fix this fast.
__________________

Last edited by therewolf; 07-22-2013 at 03:30 AM.
therewolf is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 04:25 AM   #49
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
QueenGlamis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AZ
Posts: 233
Liked 158 Times on 88 Posts
Likes Given: 42

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kfox75 View Post
funny thing 'Gello, two of the female members of the R&H club my wife and I belong to are employees of the local gentleman's club, working to pay their way to a Master's degree. One of the member's daughter, who just joined us, was a cheerleader for our local NFL franchise. All 3 are very safety conscious, well spoken, highly educated, and somewhat distracting............. , but, back on subject.

GSO,

I have seen some excellent ideas posted here. enough so that I think your solution lies in the preceding 5 pages worth of posts. One I did not see is do you have a friend or family member who meets your safety standards, who would be willing to take over the day to day operations of the range? If not that, one of the above who is retired and looking for something productive to do? Or as someone else on here said, trusted customers who could be utilized as volunteer RSOs, as this could help to lessen the strain on you of running 2 seperate businesses under one roof. You would still retain some say as to who is allowed, bot it would also be balanced out with them have an equal ability to say yay or nay.

Liability waivers are a good idea, especially in conjunction with cameras and RSOs. This way, you can concentrate more on your storefront, and customer service. This would also give you the time to deal with Q&A with new shooters, and the ability to send them over to talk with and set up instruction with your Rangemaster and RSOs. This in turn, will take some of the strain off of you, and cut down on negative reviews.

You seem like a decent person, hard to tell with just written words, but you do. it might just be the stress is getting to you a little, which can and does affect interaction with others. Please give the above suggestions some consideration. They are coming from someone who worked customer service for over 20 years, and who ran a small business for 15 years (in addition to managing 2 more part time while running his own), so I know the level of stress you are under. Basically, I don't think you are a d!ck, I just think you are stretched too thin right now. Find someone you can trust and pass them the reigns for a little while.

Best of luck with this, and keep us posted.
^^^ good advise here, and several other posts. You certainly don't want someone hurt or killed nor do you want to shut down your shop! Hubby and I have visited a few ranges and we are always asked if we have shot before (in a friendly manner), and have to sign our forms. Every range has it's own rules so it's OK if you have yours. However some of these rules were not known to us until inside the range and the RSO said you can or can't do that. Every range has their own range rules, and we have come to expect that. You can't be a one man band running the place, you need RSO to take that off your responsibility list. You certainly can't judge someone by their holding of the blue gun (I have small hands compared to hubby, not sure if we would pass?) or general statements and let them loose in your range unsupervised if they pass your tests.
__________________
QueenGlamis is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 04:38 AM   #50
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Edge of Darkness
Posts: 6,495
Liked 4790 Times on 2679 Posts
Likes Given: 1736

Default

As a by stander it sounds like you are turning your range into a point for confrontations. It seems you are determined to win an argument. As a business owner I would want to find a polite resolution.

__________________
nitestalker is offline  
therewolf Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Shooters in Denver Front range area 5280 Colorado Gun Forum 5 06-05-2013 08:01 PM
Dealing with case lube aandabooks Ammunition & Reloading 8 02-14-2013 04:33 AM
Any suggestions for dealing with a bird? sputnik1988 The Club House 41 05-27-2012 04:28 AM
Dealing with flinch phonedog365 Training & Safety 13 01-22-2011 09:41 PM
VIRGINIA-- Shooters Paradise Range chmodx The Club House 5 11-27-2008 02:00 AM