Mozambique Drill? Combat Focus? - Page 3


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Old 04-30-2008, 10:32 PM   #21
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Who is teaching that method?
For starters, *I* am.

The groin is usually a) not protected by body armor, b) not moving as much as the head, c) a bigger target, d) effective at stopping an advancing attacker, e) just generally easier to hit than the head.

The Mozambique, or "failure" drill, was developed to stop an advancing threat when all else has failed. We're not talking about surgical sniper shooting to stop a subject who has a hostage with a gun to his/her head... we're talking about stopping someone who means to hurt you very bad. If you "nick" a BG in the head, it may not stop him/her. If you "nick" them in the groin area, they WILL stop. The idea behind making a head shot is to "instantly turn out the lights" of the subject. The idea behind making a groin shot is to damage/destroy the physical structure of the advancing BG's mobility... if they can't walk or run, they can't get to you.

A groin shot is still considered to be a fatal shot, so it's not a "wound them instead of kill them" mentality to goes into this instruction. It's a definite "stop the advance" mentality. However, it's not a "less lethal" alternative to making a head shot.

Ok, I gave a lot of justification, but back to your original question... if you google it, I'm sure you can find plenty out there who are adopting this.

...or you can use the Paul Castle method: "Two to the body and four to the f***ing face!" (attempting to type with a heavy British accent


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Old 05-01-2008, 03:36 AM   #22
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For starters, *I* am.

The groin is usually a) not protected by body armor, b) not moving as much as the head, c) a bigger target, d) effective at stopping an advancing attacker, e) just generally easier to hit than the head.

The Mozambique, or "failure" drill, was developed to stop an advancing threat when all else has failed. We're not talking about surgical sniper shooting to stop a subject who has a hostage with a gun to his/her head... we're talking about stopping someone who means to hurt you very bad. If you "nick" a BG in the head, it may not stop him/her. If you "nick" them in the groin area, they WILL stop. The idea behind making a head shot is to "instantly turn out the lights" of the subject. The idea behind making a groin shot is to damage/destroy the physical structure of the advancing BG's mobility... if they can't walk or run, they can't get to you.

A groin shot is still considered to be a fatal shot, so it's not a "wound them instead of kill them" mentality to goes into this instruction. It's a definite "stop the advance" mentality. However, it's not a "less lethal" alternative to making a head shot.

Ok, I gave a lot of justification, but back to your original question... if you google it, I'm sure you can find plenty out there who are adopting this.

...or you can use the Paul Castle method: "Two to the body and four to the f***ing face!" (attempting to type with a heavy British accent
You may want to re-think that concept.

The pelvic girdle (the bones that make up where you are aiming) is one of the strongest bony structures in the body, significantly stronger than even the head. Most handgun rounds do not have enough energy to break the bone, let alone penetrate deep enough to destroy any blood vessels. In order to get a stopping hit one would either have to break the bone, which typically cannot be done with anything less than a .44 Magnum (unless of course you are training to fight women with osteoporosis). The area where the femoral artery is not protected by the pelvic girdle, which is the major blood vessel you are aiming at, is significantly smaller than the lethal triangle needed for a brain shot, and is typically covered with clothing, making it much more difficult to get a reference on where to shoot at (unless you are training to fight people at a nudist colony).

Assuming that you are able to break the pelvic girdle, you cannot count your assailant as out. It takes up to two minutes, depending on the size of the person, to bleed out from a severed femoral artery. That would be plenty of time for me to empty my magazine, reload, empty that magazine, reload, and empty that magazine into you. It is not an instantly incapacitating wound.

Secondly, your argument for not having body-armor in the groin is moot. Only rarely do people wear body-armor over their face. Even when they do, it is typically not rated to withstand anything greater than shrapnel or a .22 LR.

Thirdly, you are trying to rely on psychologically taking them out. This sounds great on paper. You just shot off their manhood. The reality is if you have already put two rounds into their chest, and that doesn't get them to psychologically say "Hey! That stung, I'm gonna just lay down now," it is highly unlikely that a round to the pecker will do that.

Fourthly, since the recoil of a pistol tends to move the firearm up, it seems silly to move your aimpoint down. This is what originally enamored Col. Cooper and others to the Mozambique Drill. Additionally, since the vast majority of trainers today are suggesting to move your eyes to the target, then move the gun, your method just plain won't work.

Finally, the reason it hasn't come up yet is that the method is stupid, and has been proven time and time again to be useless. No Law Enforcement Agency, Military branch, or legitimate training organization is suggesting it as a valid tactic. The most common method is a burst of 3 to 5 rounds to high-center chest, evaluate the target to see if the rounds stopped your assailant, and then a 3-5 round burst to the face, much like Mr. Pincus said earlier on.


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Old 05-01-2008, 06:39 AM   #23
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Finally, the reason it hasn't come up yet is that the method is stupid, and has been proven time and time again to be useless. No Law Enforcement Agency, Military branch, or legitimate training organization is suggesting it as a valid tactic. The most common method is a burst of 3 to 5 rounds to high-center chest, evaluate the target to see if the rounds stopped your assailant, and then a 3-5 round burst to the face, much like Mr. Pincus said earlier on.
I'm Army, so I don't usually keep up with Marine training, but I found this thread on another forum:

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65215

and

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1097

I thought I had some of my powerpoint slides on this laptop from when I was Observer/Controller Trainer (fancy word for "instructor") at Ft. Hood when I was on Operation Warrior Trainer in '06, but they're on my external hard drive back at my office.

When I was first introduced to the concept, I thought it was a load of lard... the method wasn't introduced to me until after I got back from Iraq.

I'll dust off my A&P books when I get back to my office in a few weeks (I'm going to Phase III of Combat Medic in El Paso) and do some more research on the structures of the skeletal system. As I recall (speaking from vague recollections at the moment), the pelvic girdle is dense, but it is mostly "armored" by the toughest ligaments in the body... which are still not as dense as bone.

I am, by no means, preaching against head-shots... I'm all for doing what it takes to stop the BG, and there's no "one size fits all" method for accomplishing that. The biggest thing I preach, my "mantra" if you will, is to "never get into a mindset and stay there."
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:40 PM   #24
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I have my own property with rifle/pistol ranges. Not having the benefit of a Police or Military combat pistol range at my disposal, I made my own. I practice using human head/torso sized cardboard cutouts attached to posts or trees at various ranges and at various angles to eachother, and focus on head shots until I feel confident. The thought being that if I can consistently hit a head, then I can certainly do the double-tap to center of mass. Of course in a real gunfight heart rate, adrenalin, overpenetration, and innocent bystanders may change things considerably. In such a case I don't think I would be trying to shoot someone in the head. My maximum range with these targets is 7 - 10 yds. because I would not expect to have to shoot someone facing me beyond that range. I believe most shooting statistics show a range of 1-7 yds.

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Old 05-04-2008, 05:18 AM   #25
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Well I have found when shooting fast the shots usually string slightly vertically on the target yet hit very close to what I want to side to side .

With this in mind on the one occasion I had to draw on a person I was aiming at his addams apple .

This is just high enough that body armor wont do them a bit of good and it doesn't matter if they turn their head or not unlike a with a head shot .

With this technique I have stuck to practicing double taps as the second round normally hits about an inch or two higher than the first .

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Old 05-04-2008, 07:59 PM   #26
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Well I have found when shooting fast the shots usually string slightly vertically on the target yet hit very close to what I want to side to side .

With this in mind on the one occasion I had to draw on a person I was aiming at his addams apple .

This is just high enough that body armor wont do them a bit of good and it doesn't matter if they turn their head or not unlike a with a head shot .

With this technique I have stuck to practicing double taps as the second round normally hits about an inch or two higher than the first .
I also have a Beretta MiniCougar in .40 which I bought 8 years ago and up until a few days ago I thought the gun was a POS because I couldn't hit with it accurately and could barely print on an 8 x 10 target at 25 yds. I put the gun away for a number of years. While shooting some 200 gr. XTP hanloads the other day at 25 yds. I noticed I was grouping about 6" low and 6" to the left of my point of aim. Moving to within 10 yds I was dead on drilling the bull. The lesson I learned is that the grips don't fit me. I must be torquing the gun to the left whenever I squeeze the trigger in DA mode. Not sure how to get around this problem...I have short fingers and a small hand. I can shoot my .357 revolver and PPK accurately.
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Old 05-06-2008, 06:22 PM   #27
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I also have a Beretta MiniCougar in .40 which I bought 8 years ago and up until a few days ago I thought the gun was a POS because I couldn't hit with it accurately and could barely print on an 8 x 10 target at 25 yds. I put the gun away for a number of years. While shooting some 200 gr. XTP hanloads the other day at 25 yds. I noticed I was grouping about 6" low and 6" to the left of my point of aim. Moving to within 10 yds I was dead on drilling the bull. The lesson I learned is that the grips don't fit me. I must be torquing the gun to the left whenever I squeeze the trigger in DA mode. Not sure how to get around this problem...I have short fingers and a small hand. I can shoot my .357 revolver and PPK accurately.
Take an actual class and you will learn what you are doing wrong...
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:38 PM   #28
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I believe 1 to the head but it is extremely hard to say where you are going to hit unless you practice one heck of a lot that's why most people are taught for center mass shots a much bigger target to hit



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