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-   -   Mo. Man at CPL class shoots self/dies (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f55/mo-man-cpl-class-shoots-self-dies-39669/)

Car54 03-12-2011 12:54 AM

Mo. Man at CPL class shoots self/dies
 
At a class, being unfamiliar with a loaded weapon is not the time to try different techniques.

Man shoots and kills himself in conceal and carry gun class | Springfield News-Leader | News-Leader.com

doctherock 03-12-2011 12:57 AM

Well its safe to say he wont make that mistake again. May God rest his soul....

willshoum 03-12-2011 01:00 AM

Retards
 
Sad that this expert instructer didn't know didly about fire arms.........

Dillinger 03-12-2011 01:05 AM

Man. I hate to see these stories. :(

Doing 90% of things "right" when handling a weapon is not enough.

And with a Browning Hi Power? Really?! :(:(:confused:

bstew324 03-16-2011 07:00 PM

too bad...needed better supervision

gruntpain1775 03-17-2011 12:45 AM

There are several things that are wrong with this whole situation. The first the type of training the Instructor was giving.

I'm an Instructor for the NRA, A State Instructor for the CCW class here and I did a metric ton of Instructing in the military. So that's my background on the Instructing realm.

The Instructor should have not been teaching something a little more advanced like this is. A CCW class is there to teach you the laws regarding the carry of a weapon, the safe manipulation of a weapon, the basics of guns and gun handling and the basics of shooting.

Once a person has been instructed in the basics of firearm use and is proficient at it, then you can advance to more complicated things like drawing and shooting with a non-dominant hand. The Instructor should not have been doing this. There should have been more close supervision as well.

An preventable thing that could have been avoided had the Instructor not tried to be a super tacticool firearms Instructor. You teach to the level of the class. Not teach to the level of yourself.

M14sRock 03-17-2011 04:05 AM

I only know one way to learn how to do something, and that is to do it. Then do it a bunch of times. And finally do it some more.

And I have no problem with an instructor teaching students techniques for weak hand shooting and manipulation.

In this case, I wonder if the Hi Power had the small safety, instead of the extended safety? Those little safeties are not easy to disengage, even with the right thumb. At 63, the student might not have had the dexterity to manipulate his HP with his weak hand, and he was probably going faster than he should have.

Maybe the instructor should have kept a closer eye on this student, knowing he was using a pistol that he was not as familiar with, but anything we say here is just Monday morning quarterbacking.

gruntpain1775 03-17-2011 04:58 AM

I have no problem teaching people techniques either. But there is a time and place for it, especially something like weak hand draw. A CCW class is not one of them. In a class like that, you have the full gambit of people. You have people who have never touched a gun before, and then you have people who can do things with a gun that Hollywood can't dream up.

This is when you have to look at the purpose and intent of a class like the CCW. The purpose is to provide training (granted, it's forced by the state and I don't agree with it) to people so they can get a CCW. Nothing more, nothing less. The intent is to provide them with education and training on the SAFE handling of a pistol and BASIC firearms training required to get your CCW license.

Now, if you want to go about giving people a more advance class where weak side shooting is involved, fine. At least then you can guage/turn away people who may not be ready for that or bring them in and work with them closely. A class where you don't know individual experience like a CCW...bad idea. Even at more advance courses you don't start doing something like that until the 2nd day and beyond, unless you have a class of people you know are advanced.

M14sRock 03-17-2011 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gruntpain1775 (Post 466516)
I have no problem teaching people techniques either. But there is a time and place for it, especially something like weak hand draw. A CCW class is not one of them. In a class like that, you have the full gambit of people. You have people who have never touched a gun before, and then you have people who can do things with a gun that Hollywood can't dream up.

This is when you have to look at the purpose and intent of a class like the CCW. The purpose is to provide training (granted, it's forced by the state and I don't agree with it) to people so they can get a CCW. Nothing more, nothing less. The intent is to provide them with education and training on the SAFE handling of a pistol and BASIC firearms training required to get your CCW license.

Now, if you want to go about giving people a more advance class where weak side shooting is involved, fine. At least then you can guage/turn away people who may not be ready for that or bring them in and work with them closely. A class where you don't know individual experience like a CCW...bad idea. Even at more advance courses you don't start doing something like that until the 2nd day and beyond, unless you have a class of people you know are advanced.

We do not know the extent of this CCW class, or the experience level of the shooters attending. You are assuming that the students were inexperienced, and are making judgments based on that assumption. I think it is irresponsible to criticize the methodology of the class without knowing the details.

At the end of the day, you may be right. But, based upon the information in that news story, there is not enough information to make accusations about the quality and level of instruction.

wmille01 03-17-2011 05:30 AM

similar thing happened in a class I was taking on tactical shooting, one guy I rather heavy guy i might add was switching to his side arm and put a round straight through his foot. He had just bought his gun that morning, the main thing is accidents happen. It's very sad but it was an accident, probably could have been avoided but it happens.


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