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Old 08-15-2007, 03:40 PM   #21
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"What if someone was attacking you with a knife?
If someone was after you with a baseball bat?
What if several people were attempting to jump you?"

In OK they are all begging to be shot.



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Old 08-15-2007, 03:48 PM   #22
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"maybe youve never taken a life, but its a freaking horrible thing to have to live with, it doesnt matter if they are american criminals or iraqi insurgents, lethal force must be on a case by case basis and discretionary, if one cannot make that split second decision within half that split second time then they shouldnt be carrying."

Twice in my life time i have had the unfortune to have to protect my family and home from armed invaders. Bad guys got shot: Some of them are not with us any more. Why is it that i suffer none of the guilt pangs described above? In one case the prosecutor did not take it to a grand jury. In the second case the grand jury threw the case out.



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Old 08-15-2007, 11:08 PM   #23
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I'm with Don. BS.

FYI, if that "nonlethal" leg shot hit the femoral artery, your BG is a dead man unless you shoot him in a hospital. It carries 3 liters of blood a minute. He's only got five. Unconscious in under a minute, dead in two.

Don't fire a gun at a man unless you're willing to kill him. That's one of the most basic rules of firearms.

This guy is a cop like I'm an NBA star--and if he doesn't watch TV, where is all this BS coming from?

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Old 08-16-2007, 07:51 AM   #24
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The idea that someone can be proficient and lucky enough to use a firearm and disable a criminal with the smallest amount of damage possible is a bit absurd. That mind-set is why people shoot someone stealing their rims or TV. Lethal force should only be used to protect innocent life, if you or your family is in danger there is no room for error.

Also lets keep this on topic, arguing and debating is definitely a good thing but lets keep it civil.

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Old 09-21-2007, 06:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownH View Post
Based on your training or other knowledge, in what scenario's would it be legal to use a firearm in self defense?

What if someone was attacking you with a knife?
If someone was after you with a baseball bat?
What if several people were attempting to jump you?
First two, both are deadly weapons that are considered lethal at distances of less than 21 feet. If you don't believe that someone 21 feet away can be deadly, measure out 21 feet. Have someone from that distance run at full sprint to you, and then ask you’re self if you could react in the second or two that it took for them to get there.

Third one, the term is Desperation of force. It is considered your life threatened.

Now I can speak for Minnesota case law, as long as you can show the following four things you are justified in the scope of the law.
1. Show that you are a reluctant participant to what happened that you did not do anything to create or make the situation worse than it was.
2. Show that you had no reasonable retreat. States with Castle doctrine / Stand your ground rule with this one! But is it reasonable to run away if that leaves your family that can not get away in danger?
3. Reasonable fear of great bodily harm.
4. Reasonable fear of death.

Now granted if you where to done anything before the knife / bat / getting jumped that would be considered making the situation worse, or if you knew an attack was going to happen and you did not avoid it or retreat if possible than you may have to shoot to save your life but it would be considered a homicide and be prosecuted for it. If you did not do anything to create the situation, tried to avoid the situation but it still came to you then… Shoot till one of two things happen.
1. The threat stops
2. You run out of bullets.

Just remember that you can be entirely in the scope of the law but still prosecuted, many areas let grand juries decide weather to go to trial or not. Either way it is a good idea to have a lawyer who you can call lined up before you need one.
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Old 09-22-2007, 01:56 PM   #26
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I agree with BLS33,If somone is attacking me,or my wife,there is no time to take aim at a "Non Lethal" body part,considering the size of my home and where our bedroom is located,I have maybe,MAYBE 1 second to raise,and pull the trigger,provided my Bad Guy isn't allready stepping into my bedroom.
What ever body part comes into view first,will be the one that will have a hole in it,and due to the type of gun I have [Mosin Nagant] I'll get 1 shot off before my Bad Guy is in Bayonet Range.
But really,how can you tell a man's intentions anyway? Let me set up a scenario.
Based on an officer's, story..A man toting what they believed to be a shot gun,ran out of a bank after a stand off,refusing to drop his weapon,they fired and killed him in "self defence"...The apparent shot-gun,turned out to be a BB rifle instead.
What does "In the spur of the moment" use of lethal force fall into?
And can they throw you in jail for the Misidentification of another person's weapon?

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Old 09-24-2007, 06:00 PM   #27
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Default Self defense

30 feet is the new standard for edged weapon attack. I teach Officers to shoot low. A pelvis shot has a much higher chance of stopping an attacker. it does not matter how high or determined an attacker is, he/she cannot run on a broken pelvis. Personally I will start low and work my way up in rapid succession for follow up shots with the 4th or 5th shot targeting the brain.

The old adage was "Two to the chest, one to the head. Makes a man good and dead."

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Old 10-09-2007, 04:40 PM   #28
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I hope there is never a time that I or (we) have to do something along those lines. First good defense is your head. Always use deadly force as a last resort......... I sure don't want to deal with court, attorney's and all the headaches!

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Old 01-29-2008, 11:07 PM   #29
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To avoid criminal prosecution and civil liability you must know and understand the laws in your state. And you should download and re study this every 12 months in case there is a change.

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Old 01-30-2008, 01:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortpes View Post
To avoid criminal prosecution and civil liability you must know and understand the laws in your state. And you should download and re study this every 12 months in case there is a change.
That's a great idea, I just downloaded and read the laws for Michigan regarding deadly force.


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