Learning from the CO tragedy. - Page 5
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:38 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by ninjatoth View Post
I often wonder why there is so much restrictions on handguns in this country and none on these assault rifles.A handgun at best is nothing but a self defense "tool" capable of stopping 2-3 people at best,as where these rifles can produce a massacre..It just makes no sense to me...Am I wrong here?
Ninjatoth, IMO yes you are wrong. there are plenty of restrictions by many states on so called, "assault rifles". magazine capacity for one, different features that are restricted or even banned. restricting or banning any type of firearm has never been the answer nor will it ever be the answer. so will the next step after "assault rifles" be hunting rifles? because i know many here could probably take a few of their hunting rifles and few hundred rounds of ammo and snipe people off from a long distance. so in your way of thinking we should restrict or ban hunting rifles, because they could be used like sniper rifles! what about shotguns? i could mow down many, many people with just my pump or SA shotgun. so we need to ban shotguns too. see shere this is leading. soon if you allow one ban or restriction, it just keeps going and going until there are no more.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:40 PM   #42
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note that he was well body armored. given the situation, any attempted confrontation by someone packin would probably proven futily fatal for them and anyone with them.
Baloney... The shooter was NOT a trained soldier or cop. He chose his target for it's soft nature and had no interest in dying as proven by his peaceful surrender.

Return fire, body armor or not, would have knocked him down or sent him scurrying back out the door!

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Old 07-22-2012, 07:35 PM   #43
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Even with all his body armor and helmet face shots could take him out. Some shots hitting that body armor may have slowed him enough to be subdued.

It will always be nothing but total speculation if others packing would have made a difference or not. But I have to believe it could have. Even those well trained could forgotten every thing and just coward or ran. Then again someone with no training could have taken him out before he got off a shot. One thing almost for certain not allowing law abiding citizens to have their weapons certainly did not help on bit.

I still am skeptical that the whole truth will ever be known about this. But a lot of things just do not add up. I find it hard to believe that this was only one disturbed man involved. Not impossible I suppose I feel that he had help or at least encouragement or someone who knew.

The anti gun groups are all over this already, but stop to think with all the bombs, and bobby traps in his apartment how much worst it could have been if he had used bombs. And those bombs are already illegal he didn't buy those legally. Laws already in place didn't stop this, it is for certain more laws would not have stopped this.

No amount of laws, restrictions or bans will never I mean never stop or affect the criminals or the criminally insane or terrorist or corrupt government.

Heaven help us all if Obama gets in again. Just my opinion but I believe he has done more damage to this country that any foreign power ever could.

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Old 07-22-2012, 07:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by kycol
Even with all his body armor and helmet face shots could take him out. Some shots hitting that body armor may have slowed him enough to be subdued.

It will always be nothing but total speculation if others packing would have made a difference or not. But I have to believe it could have. Even those well trained could forgotten every thing and just coward or ran. Then again someone with no training could have taken him out before he got off a shot. One thing almost for certain not allowing law abiding citizens to have their weapons certainly did not help on bit.

I still am skeptical that the whole truth will ever be known about this. But a lot of things just do not add up. I find it hard to believe that this was only one disturbed man involved. Not impossible I suppose I feel that he had help or at least encouragement or someone who knew.

The anti gun groups are all over this already, but stop to think with all the bombs, and bobby traps in his apartment how much worst it could have been if he had used bombs. And those bombs are already illegal he didn't buy those legally. Laws already in place didn't stop this, it is for certain more laws would not have stopped this.

No amount of laws, restrictions or bans will never I mean never stop or affect the criminals or the criminally insane or terrorist or corrupt government.

Heaven help us all if Obama gets in again. Just my opinion but I believe he has done more damage to this country that any foreign power ever could.
I agree with all of that well put sir.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:31 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by axxe55

Ninjatoth, IMO yes you are wrong. there are plenty of restrictions by many states on so called, "assault rifles". magazine capacity for one, different features that are restricted or even banned. restricting or banning any type of firearm has never been the answer nor will it ever be the answer. so will the next step after "assault rifles" be hunting rifles? because i know many here could probably take a few of their hunting rifles and few hundred rounds of ammo and snipe people off from a long distance. so in your way of thinking we should restrict or ban hunting rifles, because they could be used like sniper rifles! what about shotguns? i could mow down many, many people with just my pump or SA shotgun. so we need to ban shotguns too. see shere this is leading. soon if you allow one ban or restriction, it just keeps going and going until there are no more.
I don't see where you are coming from no.the fact that there are massive handgun restriction,when they aren't all that powerful to me is rediculous.But the govt sees no danger in assault rifles in many places and lowers the ownership age.I am not wrong,I guess I live on a different planet because handguns that do nothing but usually defend lives shouldn't be so heavily restricted where assault rifles that can produce a massacre to anyone that wants to create one have less restrictions.Some things have to be changed.I am pro 2nd amendment all the way but when is enough enough?when everyone is armed with nuclear warheads?
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:35 PM   #46
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Most of the mass killings are done with handguns not assualt rifles or their clones

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Old 07-22-2012, 08:48 PM   #47
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What planet are you living on?
Here's my point I'm trying to make.Ok,like where I live I can go buy an ar-15 with slide fire and 100 round drum any day of the week with a simple ffl call...but if I want to buy a 5 shot naa 22 short revolver,I have to go to the police dept,do a test,get a purchase permit with a deeper sector background check(all this m-f only),go to the ffl,purchase..return 2 copies of the permit,one to state one to local police...as where that ar-15 isn't your responsibility to even keep out of evil hands once its mine,I could leave it on the road for anyone to find with no repercussions..as where if I even lend my 22 pistol to a friend..busted..jailtime.Get my point?What planet?michigan planet with detroit as its toilet.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:53 PM   #48
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Heres a discussion that I had the other day. Its been posted on Facebook.

As I was standing in the line at Wendys, a friend of mine asked my what I thought about the shooting in Aurora. He told me that the guy was armored up and that he wasn't sure what he would have done about it and asked me what I would have done had I been there. I'm not sure, I said, as it was a terrible situation. About then the Manager came up and said, "Sir, your chicken sandwich wont be done for another 6 minutes." So I took a chair and my friend sat with me and we discussed the tragic situation.

Since he asked for my opinion, I told him. It went something like this:

People get wrapped up on this body armor thing, thinking that it makes someone invincible. It does not.

One of the perps in the Hollywood shootout was killed when a SWAT officer shot the guy through the foot, dropping him to the ground.

If shooting at an apparent spot doesn't work, you have to have enough presence of thought to try something else. A bullet proof vest will not stop repeated hits in the same area.

Shoot for the legs, the feet, the arms, you gotta do what you gotta do to make the threat cease. If you don't have the proper mentality then stay out of the fight. Even if you do have it and you do everything correctly you may still die.

I have been an advocate of carrying full sized handguns for years, just for situations like this. The pipsqueak guns aren't going to do it. If you have the right mindset and the wrong tools, it won't do it. You are already at a disadvantage because you have brought a handgun to a rifle fight.

Something else to think about.

Thus far, in mass shootings, we have been very fortunate to have for the most part, whack jobs that didn't have much of a clue about shooting or killing.

I have always thought that one or two guys with a clue, being gun people and having the right backgrounds could make a active shooter event an absolute night mare for first-responders or any one that was unarmed.

The shooter at Aurora, according to reports was brilliant and at the top of his class. He popped smoke, wore a gas-mask and started shooting. It's a miracle that no more people were killed than there were. He had a well thought out plan and he stuck with it and one thing that liberals and the news media will ignore is the fact that he chose a target rich environment to do it. He had little threat, if any, of opposition becuase it was a NO GUN zone.

I've said many times that if you are qualified to carry a gun, then there is no reason not to be able to carry it anywhere and everywhere. NO GUN zones exist for one reason and one reason only...to placate anti-gun people that generally don't have a clue about reality.

The fools that go screaming for more gun laws are just that...fools making a lot of noise about something they know nothing about. They think that passing a law that is the right way to go, because they are too ignorant to understand that a law does nothing to prevent a crime, it only serves as an enforcement mechanism after the fact.

Lets repeal those worthless laws and give anyone that would at least a fighting chance. Any chance is better than no chance and at least there is hope that you just might get lucky and live.

As for me, I am tired of stupid laws that give the advantage to an attacker. I am tired of the weak mindsets of people that give up before they even get started because they think they are doomed to failure. I am tired of the talking heads telling me that I am responsible for the acts of a lawbreaker that broke the law 3 states over because I own an "assault weapon". I am tired of people expecting us to bleat like sheep in the face of aggression. I am tired of this "me, me, me mentality" where someone could have stopped an assault but didn't because their weapon was only for them or their family.

I wish that everyone that could, if in the same situation, would man up and kill the offender and do it with a passion, a purpose, that would make every single person that ever thought about it at least give pause. I wish that as Americans, we would all possess a warrior mentality where you knew you were dead before you intervened so that you could fight an attacker like you were demon possessed; that if all you had for a weapon was a straw in a cup full of coke, you would grab that straw with your thumb over the end of it and try to screw it through the offenders eye ball.

I'm tired of this wussy thought process of laying down and hoping that you won't get hurt, and that maybe the attacker won't see you.

It is not the way I was raised, it is not the way I was trained, and it is not me.

And then the manager came out with my chicken and cheese sandwich...

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Old 07-22-2012, 09:06 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ninjatoth

I don't see where you are coming from no.the fact that there are massive handgun restriction,when they aren't all that powerful to me is rediculous.But the govt sees no danger in assault rifles in many places and lowers the ownership age.I am not wrong,I guess I live on a different planet because handguns that do nothing but usually defend lives shouldn't be so heavily restricted where assault rifles that can produce a massacre to anyone that wants to create one have less restrictions.Some things have to be changed.I am pro 2nd amendment all the way but when is enough enough?when everyone is armed with nuclear warheads?
First hand guns are a lot easier to conceal, so that makes them not only easier to smuggle in some where. And also makes them easier to steel or smuggle out from under a watchful eye.

Second there are no restrictions or laws that can't be broken or bypassed by those who want to.

Third you could never remove all the ways that could be used to kill people, why do people not understand this. The first murder ever to be recorded was with a rock when Cain slew Able. Mass murders did occur before the gun was ever invented and would still occur if you could remove every one in the world. It is entirely possible the blow up an entire buss load of people for less than $50.00 worth of material. In fact you car could be blown up with the use of a $4 capacitor from radio shack. Get my point, it is impossible to stop tragedies like these from happening and no amount of laws is ever going to change that fact.

I agree we have to have laws, but we have more than enough already. If they don't work what makes anyone think more will change that. Any more would only ether punish law abiding citizen or at this point make criminals out of us who really want to be law abiding.

As you said enough is enough. And as far as laws and restrictions we have more than enough.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:25 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by kycol

First hand guns are a lot easier to conceal, so that makes them not only easier to smuggle in some where. And also makes them easier to steel or smuggle out from under a watchful eye.

Second there are no restrictions or laws that can't be broken or bypassed by those who want to.

Third you could never remove all the ways that could be used to kill people, why do people not understand this. The first murder ever to be recorded was with a rock when Cain slew Able. Mass murders did occur before the gun was ever invented and would still occur if you could remove every one in the world. It is entirely possible the blow up an entire buss load of people for less than $50.00 worth of material. In fact you car could be blown up with the use of a $4 capacitor from radio shack. Get my point, it is impossible to stop tragedies like these from happening and no amount of laws is ever going to change that fact.

I agree we have to have laws, but we have more than enough already. If they don't work what makes anyone think more will change that. Any more would only ether punish law abiding citizen or at this point make criminals out of us who really want to be law abiding.

As you said enough is enough. And as far as laws and restrictions we have more than enough.
I agree that there are too many gun laws,we would all be better off with no gun laws at all,because like you said,a law does not change what a madman can do,he can buy an assault rifle off a truck and go massacre at will.My main point is that most or none of those theater patrons were armed..why not?because probably a lot of them were denied for dumb @ss stuff like ptsd or a single domestic violence charge 25 years previous.like,a veteran with ptsd might be denied a ccw,as where this perfectly sane man massacres in a theater in batman gear.If everyone was quietly packing heat no one would ever attempt stuff like this.
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