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Learning from the CO tragedy.


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Old 07-21-2012, 01:40 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by gilfo
I don't think an armed citizen(s) could have done a thing in this case. The guy had head to toe body armor I am told. And after the description of what went down, being armed, no gun signs wouldn't have meant s**t.
Ask trip what happens when getting hit in the body armor. Or many other service personal. Im pretty sure ccw's could of helped the situation somehow. Especially if there were more than 1
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:41 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Rick1967 View Post
With a compact 9mm from say 40 yards? I am more than competent will all of my guns. But I would be a fool to take a shot like that in a crowd.
It wouldn't be from 40 meters -- more like 5 - 7. He was roaming up and down the aisles, shooting at people hiding between the seats/rows. Even if you were in the center seat, it's not so far from there to where he'd be standing.

From a crouched position, the head shot you propose is upward. That theater does not have a second floor, so a bullet would have almost no chance at all of hitting anyone but the target.

I, too, qualified "Expert" with the M16, as well as with the M1911 and a few others. At 5 meters, though, I think nearly anyone would be able to hit him center-of-mass, enough to distract him while other, hypothetical, armed citizens also targetted him.

He, though, does not seem to have had weapons training. I doubt his ability to put effective fire on target. The fact that he hit "only" 71 people, and killed "only" a dozen of them points to this conclusion (as well as the lack of any sensationalistic "journalism" telling us about his military background or whatever).

We must concede that body armor makes this more difficult. Soit! Still, as others have said, getting shot at is an experience few people seek out for good reason.

'Sides, fool or no -- I'd prefer the slight risk of hitting another innocent to letting him continue his shooting-gallery. My family would come first. And the possibilty of reducing the total body count overweighs the risk.

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Old 07-21-2012, 02:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by vincent View Post
Concealed is concealed, nobody will be any the wiser until (God help us) you have to use it...and if you do, do you really think you'll be reprimanded for it? (assuming tragedy was averted)

The worst thing that can happen is you are asked to leave if...IF you are discovered which brings me back to the first point...concealed is concealed...
^^THIS^^

The first rule to winning A gun fight is TO HAVE A GUN!

As C3 stated, low light and smoke wont matter, the BG's muzzle flashes will give you an excellent target.

Cowards who select hi occupancy gun free zones are not expecting opposition. I don't care if he's wearing body armor or not, return fire just plain rattles anyone!

1 armed citizen with the training and presence of mind to engage would have reduced the body count DRASTICALLY.

The lesson learned, as I have advocated here for over 2 years is for all of us with CCW to IGNORE gun buster signs and stand ready to defend ourselves and our communities.

First responders receive much "unwarranted" praise IMHO. First responders are, in most cases, pretty much useless. IMMEDIATE responders are necessary in today's world and anyone who would seek to stifle immediate responders should be shunned, ignored, and if neecessary, Eliminated.

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Old 07-21-2012, 04:08 PM   #24
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Personally I don't like the idea of a bunch of armed people in a movie theater but on the other hand if we are going to have psycho paths going in them and shooting them up then we should all be armed like the wild west. I do not have a ccw permit because I have never felt like I needed one but my attitude is starting to change.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:25 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by vincent View Post
Concealed is concealed, nobody will be any the wiser until (God help us) you have to use it...and if you do, do you really think you'll be reprimanded for it? (assuming tragedy was averted)

The worst thing that can happen is you are asked to leave if...IF you are discovered which brings me back to the first point...concealed is concealed...
tell that to Bernard Goetz - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz His life was ruined for defending himslef and the only the charge he was convicted of was illegal possession of a firearm

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It seems to be more and more common that "No good deed goes un-punished"!
Bingo!

Today, too many people in society are brainwashed into believing that only LEO and the Gov't can and/or should protect them. It is reconfirmed time and again when someone does protect themselves and is punished by the Judicial system. Case in point - Goerge Zimmerman, whatever you think about him and the situation, he was defending himself from being beaten, and now his life is destroyed.

I most firmly believe that everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness AND the right defend themselves - with whatever force they deem necessary.

Consequences for ones actions is what will reduce crime ..... not gun control
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:31 PM   #26
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note that he was well body armored. given the situation, any attempted confrontation by someone packin would probably proven futily fatal for them and anyone with them.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:17 PM   #27
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note that he was well body armored. given the situation, any attempted confrontation by someone packin would probably proven futily fatal for them and anyone with them.
i agree with that. the average person is not trained or equipped to handle this type of scenario and even if carrying, is not any guarantee that you still wouldn't end up being another victim. this type of incident is far from the typical type of armed attacks and with all the body armor....
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:18 PM   #28
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Sorry- having BEEN shot while wearing body armor, I can tell you that at the least it is a hell of a distractor. And while you may armor your torso, throat, and helmet, that still leaves face, arms, hands, legs and the weapon as available targets. Unless you are wearing a blast and fragment SUIT (what we used to call our Darth Vader suits) you can still be a target- just a harder one. The shooter was not a sniper at 600 meters- more like 6 feet.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:36 PM   #29
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Great points made by most! Yes the body armor would make things difficult but not impossible. This is a big reason why I want to carry "hi-capacity" like an xd9 w/17 rds. Put 6, 7, or 8 into his COM to disrupt his thought process / aim and empty the remaining into trying to hit the face/head, or arm, or side of leg, whatever target of opportunity presented itself.

Sorry I forgot to quote but: To the person who wouldn't want to be in a theater with a bunch of people carrying guns...

Would you feel equally uncomfortable around an armed military platoon in a civilian setting?

Why do / would you feel uncomfortable in a setting with individuals who have passed passed background checks, many who have received training, and responsibly carry and maintain a tool that is used to protect their lives and potentially the lives of other innocents?
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:25 PM   #30
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I am considering the fact that I usually sit near the back of the theatre. The shooter entered from the front of the theatre. I would figure that a lot of time would transpire before I would have a shot. And I would never just shoot at a muzzle blast. Who knows how many people would run between you and the flash. I would not want to add to the body count of inocents. I was military. I am a competative shooter. However, this is not a movie. I am not Bruce Willis or Arnold. I would not run away. But I would probably not survive the encounter. My presence would be pretty obvious. I know that I would not wait for him to come to me.

I am not saying I would not confromt him. I am simply saying that I dont know that I would be able to stop him.

I naturally assume that someone who owns an AR knows how to use it. Perhaps that is not the case.
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