Just how smart is it to "Train like the pros?"
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:56 PM   #1
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Default Just how smart is it to "Train like the pros?"

I've been reading, watching and talking to a buddy who is SRT at the county and am really starting to wonder if the average gun toter needs to be following training trends. First, they are geared up, wearing body armor and on a mission. We are on the way to Subway with the kids. They are going to square off to the threat to avoid the armpit hit that will defeat their armor. We might do well to stick to the Weaver stance so we can be a smaller target. They spec weapons and holsters etc. based on regs and job needs, we probably have very different needs. I dearly love tactical lights and sights but can't help but think the average Joe doesn't need to follow the Pros too blindly, you could get hurt if they stop too fast.

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Old 11-14-2012, 12:32 AM   #2
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I've been reading, watching and talking to a buddy who is SRT at the county and am really starting to wonder if the average gun toter needs to be following training trends. First, they are geared up, wearing body armor and on a mission. We are on the way to Subway with the kids. They are going to square off to the threat to avoid the armpit hit that will defeat their armor. We might do well to stick to the Weaver stance so we can be a smaller target. They spec weapons and holsters etc. based on regs and job needs, we probably have very different needs. I dearly love tactical lights and sights but can't help but think the average Joe doesn't need to follow the Pros too blindly, you could get hurt if they stop too fast.
having had military training, i am very glad i have the knowledge i learned from it.. that being said yes, SD/HD takes a different training base than the pros, however sometimes it can be helpful to have the pros knowledge. would i wear a kevlar vest for going to the mall? no. but if someone breaks in i know how to clear my house. i say if you have the info great, keep it in your memory banks. but train for more public, civilian style confrontations.... IMHO, training of any kind is better than nothing. but try to focus on the real possiblilites, and not the what if's.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:09 AM   #3
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I doubt I could forget my time with Sam if I tried and just the mental conditioning that makes you respond is worth a lot. What brought my post on was another thread where the dreaded SERPA holster was once again trashed and the logic was if this or that group didn't want to use them, nobody should. Also my well meaning friend who was correcting my stance until I mentioned my shirt had no bullet proof qualities. Gun TV that has become popular lately seems to follow in lockstep, another thing is that after years of the nine being too small too weak stc. the experts are deciding it's ok. Could it be that since their handguns are secondary and the targets probably armored the nine is fine because it's easier to make head shots with? That may not transfer well to you and I either.

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Old 12-12-2012, 01:47 AM   #4
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No, what we have found is that the .45 and .40 are nothing special, the 9 is cheaper to practice with, easier to control, and with a good load, speciifically the 100 gr Corbon, it works just fine.

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Old 01-19-2013, 05:18 AM   #5
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Interesting title. but incorrect thesis. We should be following "Self Defense" pro's not attempting to replicate what law enforcement does.
They are 2 different responses.

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Old 01-19-2013, 10:34 AM   #6
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While I am very grateful for my 70's era LE training, and while my time as a 90's era special weapons team medic were insightful, there is no way on this Earth that I would use the training for civilian self-defense. Besides the obvious protection issues, there is one big reason for this. I don't have a duty to act. Another reason is chances are I will be on my own in a self-defense situation. LE tactics are great when you and your team have to go in and subdue, but all I have to do as a civilian is try to stay alive until the police get there. Avoidance, cover, concealment, and retreat are my primary thoughts. John Wayne is dead, and I want to wait a while to follow in his footsteps.

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Old 01-19-2013, 12:11 PM   #7
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LE and military plan for team tactics. Most any threat you face will be on your own. You train for the threat you anticipate.

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Old 01-19-2013, 10:12 PM   #8
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Interesting title. but incorrect thesis. We should be following "Self Defense" pro's not attempting to replicate what law enforcement does.
They are 2 different responses.
That's why I'm a mech. not a writer. What I described is what I'm seeing but I have to ask, how does one become a self defense pro? Hang out on dark streets in bad areas?
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:57 PM   #9
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Hell i'm just proud to hear any gun owner gets any kind of training-
Far too many spend a hundred bucks or so- take a 8hr class & start carring a very dangerous weapon just because they can

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Old 01-20-2013, 01:45 PM   #10
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Interesting title. but incorrect thesis. We should be following "Self Defense" pro's not attempting to replicate what law enforcement does.
They are 2 different responses.
I'm really not trying to be a smart ###, but what exactly is a self-defense pro, and how did they become one? Did they learn some skills at a dojo and incorporate firearms into it? Did they try to adapt LE or military training to what they think will be the civilian equivalent? Is it a college degree in butt whooping? Or are the "experts" just masters at BS with a goal of making your wallet lighter?

Something I have noticed missing in many classes I have taken was rule number one, I think from Bill Jordan. Carry the same gun in the same holster in the same location every single time. I don't remember if he said it or not, but another thing I heard attributed to him was only practice with the ammo you carry.

Back in my brief stint in LE we qualified with .38 Special wadcutters, but nobody carried them. We wore crossdraw holsters, but for safety reasons we weren't allowed to practice or qualify with them. We shot the PPC course for qualifying with 60 rounds loaded out of our strong side pocket. It was stupidity at it's finest. We had to demonstrate we could shoot the paper man, but nobody was giving us the tools we needed to rapidly defend ourselves on the street.

Today, thanks to litigation, high ammo prices, and insurance company regulations, most civilians are totally unprepared to defend ourselves if all we do is go to the range on a regular basis. We don't have the muscle memory to find our weapon and draw it. We don't have the muscle memory to bring our weapon from the holster to the target. We don't even have the muscle memory to recover for our second rapid fire shot. Most ranges won't allow us to hone these skills.

Now I know there are a bunch of people that will argue this point with me, but self defense with a handgun has nothing to do with skill, form, stance, or grip. It's all about muscle memory. It needs to be a reflex, and we aren't training to work that way. Unless you are in a situation such as a home invasion that gives you time to prepare, we are woefully lacking in the skills needed for self defense.
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