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Old 11-27-2013, 12:22 AM   #1
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Default Just got done with a weekend of MaxVelocity's Combat carbine Class

Just got done with a weekend at Max’s CRCD Class.

Thoroughly enjoyed myself and I am sooo glad I overcame my workout injuries in the last couple of weeks to squeeze in some leg work outs before I came.
but I get ahead of myself, let’s start from the beginning:

Recently I decided to up my game and was looking around for some tactical classes.

Looked at the ubiquitous Magpul videos and some other “big name” classes and they just bothered the heck out of me.
They were mostly about becoming an AR driver and transition dancer, not a tactically proficient and rounded individual.,

Those others seemed to be focused on a PoU (Philosophy of Use) that might be good for a SWAT team but not for a civilian 1st Defender.

In my mind it is laughable that some of those schools make practicing transitions from rifle to handgun a mandatory part for their students, most of which have not yet even maxed out on the Rifle.

I myself even though I am <quite> good with a handgun wouldn’t think of making a training effort for transitions until I can no longer improve anything with my rifle skilsl AND I get driven to wherever I go, so I dont have to worry about the handgun displacing needed magazines or water…

I am not an experienced Infantryman but I know a thing or two about training troops and using the right PoU ….and in my mind the mainstream, Carbine classes that are currently taught often seem to use a PoU that fits the instructors needs better than those of the students.

But enough about why I think others are flawed, lets talk about whats great about Max’s Class:

For one you are not on a static range…. pop up targets from different angles while doing live fire reaction drills as individuals, buddy teams, fire teams and as a capstone event as a Squad is a fantastic training tool.
its hard to imagine good training without it.
Secondly the terrain is realistic, no nicely maintained and easy to observe firing lane.. its all a conglomerate of bushes and trees and inclines and declines and ravines and stumps and rocks etc etc.
Just like in the real world!
Also , while Max takes reasonable safety precautions, he doesnt allow them to dictate the temp of his training like you will find sometimes in the big military and in most police depts.
You get treated as an adult, which is why it is important you show up only after getting thoroughly comfortable with your rifle.

Finally Max makes a real effort to explain and make sure student understand which tactical response is appropriate in which situation, so you are later empowered to think for yourself what tactical situation or intent you have that will lead you to either break contact or attack thru or flank etc.
Hopefully this way folks in a real SHTF will not blindly execute a drill thats inappropiate to the situation at hand, because they learned what is useful when.

It really helped me that I had read about half of his manual “Contact” before the class, otherwise it would have been harder to absorb his training.
I strongly recommend students buy his book “Contact” and read it before taking the class.
This holds especially for those w/o any military training who should read it slowly and thoroughly.

Speaking of his manual between that and his blog it totally sold me on training with him.
I often find that authors of such manuals try to fit the square peg of their own experience as SF or SWAT into the round hole of training up civilian preppers for WROL, TEOTWAWKI etc results in comically misplaed guidance.
but none of such errors in judgement can be found in Max’s book.

Everything he write makes sense for the situations he writes about and hopes to train about.

I am convinced that as his book “Contact” slowly percolates thru the community it will achieve cult status within a decade or two, as THE basic manual that fits the “civilian caught in SHTF” PoU.
I also believe that this type of training will transform the tactical firearms community in the next few years. We will see the faddish “tacticool “we will almost make you a SF operator” type schools adapt or shrink.

Non-faddish training focused on the basics is a must and I strongly recommend folks take his classes (or classes by those who exhibit a similar training philosophy which is not many, but some others do exist)



PS: The students were almost as impressive as their teacher a no nonsense kind of group that was competent with their rifles, wore squared away gear and was eager to excel

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Old 11-27-2013, 03:56 AM   #2
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Just wanted to say great post. Lots of good info and things for fellow members to research and consider. Thank you

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Old 12-01-2013, 02:48 AM   #3
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College:

Thanks for the kind words.

I was hoping I'd get some more commentary going from the board folks.
I really think this training philosophy as done by max velocity (and Mosby and Mason Dixon tactical) outperforms the current benchmarks like EAG and Magpul Dynamics who from their AARs, and training vids just seem to basically only SWAT training.

I would like to see more folks graduate beyond being mere AR drivers and transition dancers...

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Old 12-01-2013, 03:10 AM   #4
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Nice writeup Bluez. Would you say the class is geared toward those with LE or Military experience or could the average civilian feel comfortable without it being over their heads?

I am interested in getting tactical training but kinda don't know where to start as I have never been in Military or LE.

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Old 12-01-2013, 02:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbartrip6 View Post
Nice writeup Bluez. Would you say the class is geared toward those with LE or Military experience or could the average civilian feel comfortable without it being over their heads?

I am interested in getting tactical training but kinda don't know where to start as I have never been in Military or LE.
I was almost in the same boat as you.
While I am 23 years plus military but all except the first couple years involved very little tactical training.
So I know I have a deficit.

But I know/remember just enough to be an informed consumer of tactical training and IMO to not fall into the faddish traps that many civilian 1st defenders fall when they sincerely want to get trained.

So I spent many months researching what class to attenbd.
My income is healthy so the extra expense of of popular big the such as EAG, magpul Dynamics and Viking Tactics did not scare me away by itself but watching their videos did.
Those raised a lot of red flags in my mind.

Their training seemed to be shaped by 3 things:

-They expect their attendees to be out of shape and refuse to challenge them.. thats why everyone is on nice flat grass fields , standing or a slow walk punching paper targets.

-Even tho many of the instructors are ex military their most recent work was in SWAT and as security contractors . Such outfits while very competent have a philosophy of Use, VERY different from what is useful for a civilian first responder. But its marketing tool for the customer " Oooo my instructor used to be SWAT or used to be SF"... dazzle...

- Integrating "cool tricks" to learn. How ever it is my conviction that the cool tricks of "Urban Prone" and "Transtion" etc etc are niche skills that apply fto very few situations and its better left to train once you mastered all the basics well. But it seems some school focus on them because they are easier to do than to run your students thru real lanes training.

Then I finally read about Max Velocity by accident on a forum somewhere.
(might have been this one.. not sure I am on a few)

About your primary question:

The vast majority of attendees are 100% civilians, all Max asks that anyone who attends knows how to run his gun. This is also in the interest of safety and since he does little to no actual "AR driving" training since it is his belief, (which I share) that we can do that on our own at a local square range and time is too valuable when you are out in tactics training.
Any "fighting rifle" is ok it does not have to be an AR.

We had some exmilitary , some retired cops, who of course, especially the ex military would have a bit of leg up but thats all it was.. a leg up.
people of dont realize how little tactical ability the avg LEO has and how little the avg non Infantry, military man has..So we all learned...

The guy I observed and felt he was the best at small unit tactics had no such LEO or military at all (it wasnt his first time tho training I think)

here are some discussions you may be interested in that contrast the training philosphy of maxvelocity (and similar schools like mason dixon tactical in PA and Mosby's place in MI) to what currrently passes as mainstream.

He has a couple of harsh comments about forums in general but keep in mind he does NOT refer to this one...... but these 3 are IMO EXCELLENT essays on whats wrong with tactical training for civilians in our country and what some folks do to make it less fancy and more useful

The first link picks up on a review I wrote on another forum and he does a beautiful job of eloquently describing whats wrong with all the (in my mind wasteful) transition dancing the mainstream schools seem to insist on:

I know they are long if you intend to get training please read them as they a) explain a lot of important things and b) in a way that's rarely found in the mainstream training which in my mind borders on snake oil selling.

http://maxvelocitytactical.com/2013/11/taking-tacticool-transition-dogma/

http://maxvelocitytactical.com/2013/11/tactical-tyranny-forum-update/

http://maxvelocitytactical.com/2013/11/gear-guns-whats-missing/

I am going back in a couple of weeks for a repeat.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:43 PM   #6
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Good post, Bluez. Nice to see you got some actual practical-needs training. So many of the big-money tactical training facilities are for fat middle-aged rich guys who want to play "operator" for a week...or for military and police special tactics applications.

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Old 12-01-2013, 09:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7point62 View Post
Good post, Bluez. Nice to see you got some actual practical-needs training. So many of the big-money tactical training facilities are for fat middle-aged rich guys who want to play "operator" for a week...or for military and police special tactics applications.
Exactly!!!
That's why i looked around for months to find a more real place.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:27 AM   #8
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Great info! Thanks! I forsee several hours on his site. He has tons of info on there.

I like what he said in one of your links about learning the basics before the niche stuff. A class like this may be what I am looking for. I am very confident and capable with my rifle but shooting at paper in a range or whitetails in the forest is far different from a self defense scenario where I need to defend my home and family.

Thanks again for all the info. You have given me lots to dig into!

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Old 12-16-2013, 12:11 PM   #9
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cbar : thsnks for the kind words

Also I Just got back from another one last nite.
Was too beat up in bring in my rifles and went straight to bed.

So now they are cold and i brought them in and will watch/wipe as I bring them to temp on the apt top prevent excessive sweating..

Ill publish a thorough AAR here within a day or two

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