Is James Yeager Correct, 9mm or .45 acp Only Good Choices For Defense Ammo? - Page 9
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:13 PM   #81
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I have been around 2 barroom shootings. Both times the aggressor was shot. Neither one wanted to fight any more. This was prior to the advent of plastic guns. So both were probably shot with a 25/32 cal. Both shooters managed to disappear into the crowd. Both of the men that were shot lived to tell about it. Both recovered to live a full life.

Unless the bad guy is on drugs a single shot in the belly with anything will change their mind. With the advent of plastic guns no one carries a 25 anymore. Most people at least have a 380. Even if the attacker is on drugs a couple shots will convince him that finding a doctor is more important than revenge.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:20 PM   #82
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I have one of each. But I would think that a 12 gauge slug would be pretty effective if you aren't worried about overpenetration.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:27 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balota
I have one of each. But I would think that a 12 gauge slug would be pretty effective if you aren't worried about overpenetration.
Like a Super Shorty!
The price tag is too high for me.
I think it may be cheaper to build one, even after buyin a shotgun and registering it as an SBS.
Maybe a double barrel SBS would be cheaper.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:37 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR10 View Post
Calling for data somehow does what?
I'm sorry, is dealing in actual data somehow a problem for you? It was a simple question.
Does the average LAC now get into long drawn out shootouts these days?
If so, when did this change come about?
How many rounds must one expect to need in this brave new world?
I don't know, Perhaps actual info might help me re-evaluate my situation and how I arm myself. For instance, does my 5 shot .38 w/ a reload make me helpless against the criminal hordes or do I need a plastic wonder nine with at least 3 reloads to get my paper off the porch?

Again, I'm not talking about people who chase bad guys, I'm talking about the normal person going about their normal lives.

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How about listening to the streets. 100,000 gang members on one US city alone.
What city is the world leader for kidnapping? Mexico City.
Phoenix is still reportedly #2, but #1 in the US. But some of the numbers have been called into question, depending on what you read.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57470618/chicago-police-sergeant-tribal-warfare-on-the-streets
Those places, while quite lovely, are not really relevant the vast majority of people who's lives are lived elsewhere.

You made the assertion, not me. I simply asked that you back it with something resembling useful information. Sorry for that.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:50 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
I have been around 2 barroom shootings. Both times the aggressor was shot. Neither one wanted to fight any more. This was prior to the advent of plastic guns. So both were probably shot with a 25/32 cal. Both shooters managed to disappear into the crowd. Both of the men that were shot lived to tell about it. Both recovered to live a full life.

Unless the bad guy is on drugs a single shot in the belly with anything will change their mind. With the advent of plastic guns no one carries a 25 anymore. Most people at least have a 380. Even if the attacker is on drugs a couple shots will convince him that finding a doctor is more important than revenge.
in the situation where you have to use a firearm in SD, what stops a BG is either shutting down the central nervous system or massive blood loss. a gutshot BG on drugs can be a potentially dangerous person. depending the drugs in his system, he may not even feel the pain or even have a clue as to how badly he's hurt. what about massive amounts of adrenaline in their system? huge amounts of adrenaline can act just like painkillers. so a couple of shots may or may not kill them, but at in what time frame? an hour later? twenty minutes later? even five minutes later? still plenty of time for him to render huge amounts of hurt upon you.

the key fact is to stop the threat as quickly as possible. so to suggest that a couple of shots will deter someone who is amped up on drugs and has huge amounts of adrenaling flowing is providing false security and misleading.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:25 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Gizord1 View Post
Like a Super Shorty!
The price tag is too high for me.
I think it may be cheaper to build one, even after buyin a shotgun and registering it as an SBS.
Maybe a double barrel SBS would be cheaper.
We used them when I was on TEU (SWAT) and tried them for entry and VIP protection and they are worthless!!!
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:25 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overkill0084 View Post
I'm sorry, is dealing in actual data somehow a problem for you? It was a simple question.
Does the average LAC now get into long drawn out shootouts these days?
If so, when did this change come about?
How many rounds must one expect to need in this brave new world?
I don't know, Perhaps actual info might help me re-evaluate my situation and how I arm myself. For instance, does my 5 shot .38 w/ a reload make me helpless against the criminal hordes or do I need a plastic wonder nine with at least 3 reloads to get my paper off the porch?

Again, I'm not talking about people who chase bad guys, I'm talking about the normal person going about their normal lives.

Those places, while quite lovely, are not really relevant the vast majority of people who's lives are lived elsewhere.

You made the assertion, not me. I simply asked that you back it with something resembling useful information. Sorry for that.
Read. I read several national sources, and every local source, daily.

I sometimes look at local mug shot postings, and read what they were charged for.

You cannot gauge the average freshness of a jar of mayonnaise by statistics. You must determine the value of the the mayo by each use. Saying you have lived in the same house twenty years, and never had any trouble, does not mean you leave your house unlocked at night.

Omaha, recently. 93 year old woman, sleeping in a home with family, is attacked, raped, beaten so badly, she dies several days later. Attacker was asleep in her bed when police were called in the morning. Illegal alien from Mexico doing odd roofing jobs. In the country four months.

Watch the movie, no country for old men, and get a glimpse into what is happening on the streets of America, today. Gang violence is many times harsher than portrayed in this Hollywood film. Bodies hung from bridges, decapitated heads, people boiled alive in oil.

We trully living in no country for old men.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:33 PM   #88
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We used them when I was on TEU (SWAT) and tried them for entry and VIP protection and they are worthless!!!
Only three shots if I remember correctly, right? The short barrel must also make some wide, crappy grouping too. I think Tubbs had one on Miami Vice.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:42 PM   #89
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Discounting .40 and 10mm is just silly. They may take a little more practice to be proficient on due to the snappier high pressure rds but aside from that they are definitely a viable option.

Especially 10mm the reg watered down 10mm slinging that big glock 20/21 slide back makes for a very manageable rd

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Old 07-28-2013, 03:47 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizord1 View Post
Like a Super Shorty!
The price tag is too high for me.
I think it may be cheaper to build one, even after buyin a shotgun and registering it as an SBS.
Maybe a double barrel SBS would be cheaper.
Would that be considered a SBS seeing as it has no buttstock ? Wouldnt that be a pistol or ?
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