Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Training & Safety > Is James Yeager Correct, 9mm or .45 acp Only Good Choices For Defense Ammo?

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Old 07-04-2013, 03:47 PM   #61
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the argument is moot.

the prime rule of self defense:

have a gun, any gun.

corollary is the gun you have should be the largest caliber you can comfortably carry and get hits center mass quickly.

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Old 07-05-2013, 03:57 AM   #62
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JonM, that was the point of my posted article. It doesn't have to be large anymore, as the 9mm is reliably opening large holes, most have high capacity magazines and lower recoil, therefore more shots taken more accurately and in the fight longer.

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Old 07-05-2013, 04:08 AM   #63
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the name of the game, is to stop the threat. not kill or injure, but stop. the key factor is being able to hit your intended target, not the caliber. putting multiple holes in the BG should stop the threat, whether you kill him or not.

IMO, people need to work on being able to hit a desired target, rather than fussing over whether they have the right caliber. multiple accurate hits with a smaller caliber are much better than misses with a larger one.

i do have another discussion i'd like to talk about. what if confronted with a BG, intent on doing bad things, you have to pull your pistol, but don't have to fire, but he doesn't run off, but stands there with his hands in the air? what to do with him? now i know that a person needs to call the police, but how? what if someone sees you holding a gun on the BG, and they don't know the circumstances?

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Old 07-09-2013, 05:30 PM   #64
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So as we all believe correctly, the intended mission of concealed carry is to stop the threat, why not shoot into the air, as Joe said to do? 5 gun blasts in the air, might very well stop the threat. A rattlesnake is built the way they are for a reason.

Maybe the first 5 rounds in any concealed carry gun should be blanks?

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Old 07-10-2013, 04:41 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM View Post
the argument is moot.

the prime rule of self defense:

have a gun, any gun.

corollary is the gun you have should be the largest caliber you can comfortably carry and get hits center mass quickly.
If you watch enough of Mr. Yeager's videos, you'll find that statement in there.

In one of the videos he states that he's been engaged on the subject by numerous people and he always asks them what they're carrying. He then states that the "bigger is better" crowd typically "forgot" their favorite hand cannon at home... because it was too heavy... and it's hot outside... and they couldn't wear their favorite clothes with it.

He then refers back to the "prime directive" of self defense, as you stated, or "first rule of gunfighting" as he would say.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:10 PM   #66
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The glocks have had kabooms with the .40, other guns not so much, and maybe Glock has corrected the problem with newer generation guns? The .40 is nothing much, power wise and in pocket guns, its recoil is enough to slow down repeat hits. What the 10mm has is enough velocity to expand a jhp in flesh. with the exception of 165 gr CorBon PowRBAll ammo, the .45 doesn't do this. What they do in jello or water is irrelevant. Shoot some critters with .45 jhp's, especially the 230 gr variants, or 200 gr in short barrels, and notice that the exit wounds look just like the entrance wounds.

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Old 07-25-2013, 06:03 PM   #67
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If memory serves, Glock has changed the chamber geometry slightly with newer .40S&W and 10MM barrels, just like they've changed the geometry of the ejector with the Gen 4 pistols after they discovered that the Gen 1-3 ejectors didn't work so well in the new design. Going cheap on the ejector and extractor didn't work out very well. They've started replacing the Gen 4 extractors, too, but I couldn't discern any geometry difference between the new and old design.

The recoil springs have been "smoothed out" according to them. I'm not sure what that means, but that's what they stated. My 17 Gen 4 recoil spring assembly hasn't been a problem, so I am reluctant to replace something that works with something that works "better".

The chamber geometry or out-of-spec ammunition is almost certainly to blame for the KB's, but Glock is apparently more concerned with feed reliability than operator safety. Hard to say which way I'd go with that, but one thing's for sure, if your pistol blows up in your hand it's not doing you any good. The aftermarket Glock barrels I'm familiar with all have fully supported chambers and since they're all American companies they're probably more concerned with the potential for lawsuits from a "defective" product than whether or not the pistol can feed upside down in a hurricane.

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Old 07-25-2013, 08:43 PM   #68
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The glocks have had kabooms with the .40, other guns not so much, and maybe Glock has corrected the problem with newer generation guns? The .40 is nothing much, power wise and in pocket guns, its recoil is enough to slow down repeat hits. What the 10mm has is enough velocity to expand a jhp in flesh. with the exception of 165 gr CorBon PowRBAll ammo, the .45 doesn't do this. What they do in jello or water is irrelevant. Shoot some critters with .45 jhp's, especially the 230 gr variants, or 200 gr in short barrels, and notice that the exit wounds look just like the entrance wounds.
I prefer to call them drain holes, and they serve a very valuable purpose. They keep blood from building up in body cavities, which will actually slow down blood loss.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:43 PM   #69
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so what? blood loss is nearly always WAY too slow for our purposes of self defense. you can shut off blood flow completely, and the mammal, including men, can still function for up to 5 seconds. Since he can shoot or stab or club you 4x per second, with each hand, that's way too slow. We need his arms to drop useless in sub 1/2 second. The only ways to get that result are to brain him, or cause him so much pain/shock that he psychologically QUITS. Nothing that you can do to his chest, especially not with standard handgun loads, results in physcical incapacitation in less than 5 seconds, other than a fluke hit to the spine (high enough up to disable his arms).

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Old 07-25-2013, 10:09 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by bildee View Post
so what? blood loss is nearly always WAY too slow for our purposes of self defense. you can shut off blood flow completely, and the mammal, including men, can still function for up to 5 seconds. Since he can shoot or stab or club you 4x per second, with each hand, that's way too slow. We need his arms to drop useless in sub 1/2 second. The only ways to get that result are to brain him, or cause him so much pain/shock that he psychologically QUITS. Nothing that you can do to his chest, especially not with standard handgun loads, results in physcical incapacitation in less than 5 seconds, other than a fluke hit to the spine (high enough up to disable his arms).

So instead of waiting a half hour, create a drain hole and speed things up. You said pain/shock. The faster they drain, the sooner shock sets in. Big hole in, big hole out.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever seen somebody that was shot with a handgun? If they didn't have an exit hole, did you notice how little actual bleeding was visible?
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