If somebody is getting beat or hurt and your armed what would you do? - Page 8
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:12 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post
Driving up on a scene that you didnt see play out and dont know the entire story can give false impressions and cause ones emotions to override their capabilities or insight. Snap Judgement based on little or no background isnt a great imputus for becoming involved one on 2! The wrong move can create more victims, you being one of them.




^^^THIS^^^...To expand on that thought, unless you know FOR. A. FACT. how the altercation started, and why, your best move is to call 911 and don't get involved...(flame away on me if you wish...) ESPECIALLY if you are carrying.

I see a lot of assumptions about the 'helplessness' and 'innocence' of said homeless guy. Homeless or not, any person can be a threat.

What if the homeless guy tried a snatch and grab of a child before you became aware of the altercation?

What if he grabbed and groped the 'aggressors' wife before you became aware of the altercation?

What if he had just mugged an old lady...and you didn't know that?

If you involve yourself in the fracas while carrying, you have just needlessly sacrificed the attention necessary to completely maintain possession and control of your firearm. I can think of lots of things that can come from that...ain't one of 'em good...

I've seen a TON of fights, brawls, fistacuffs, donnybrooks, knock-down-drag-outs and broohahas in my time, and inserting yourself into that situation, however noble the thought may be, without complete knowledge of the circumstances, is rarely a good idea...
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:20 PM   #72
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[quote=vincent;1298686]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post
Driving up on a scene that you didnt see play out and dont know the entire story can give false impressions and cause ones emotions to override their capabilities or insight. Snap Judgement based on little or no background isnt a great imputus for becoming involved one on 2! The wrong move can create more victims, you being one of them.

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Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post



^^^THIS^^^...To expand on that thought, unless you know FOR. A. FACT. how the altercation started, and why, your best move is to call 911 and don't get involved...(flame away on me if you wish...) ESPECIALLY if you are carrying.

I see a lot of assumptions about the 'helplessness' and 'innocence' of said homeless guy. Homeless or not, any person can be a threat.

What if the homeless guy tried a snatch and grab of a child before you became aware of the altercation?

What if he grabbed and groped the 'aggressors' wife before you became aware of the altercation?

What if he had just mugged an old lady...and you didn't know that?


If you involve yourself in the fracas while carrying, you have just needlessly sacrificed the attention necessary to completely maintain possession and control of your firearm. I can think of lots of things that can come from that...ain't one of 'em good...

I've seen a TON of fights, brawls, fistacuffs, donnybrooks, knock-down-drag-outs and broohahas in my time, and inserting yourself into that situation, however noble the thought may be, without complete knowledge of the circumstances, is rarely a good idea...

There is no way of knowing, but even if the "victim" (or the person on the receiving end of the beat down) did something heinous that is not how we, as a civilized society, deal with that. There are legal avenues for that sort of thing.

And once those avenues have been explored and if the outcome is not just, then you take care of the motherfukker in private, not on a public street.

Or you could do like Ellie Nessler did and cap the dude in court. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellie_Nesler
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:34 PM   #73
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This question goes for everyone regardless of law what would your human instinct do?
As hinted at earlier, my instinct runs toward self-preservation.

I once posted about walking up on what appeared to be a rape in progress and using deadly force to stop the attacker. What would happen, and more importantly, how would you feel, if it turned out to be a husband and wife willingly fulfilling one of their sexual fantasies? If you're extremely lucky the reasonable person argument might get you off the hook for the killing, but unless you are a true sociopath your life is ruined. You will never forget the day you killed an innocent human being.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:37 PM   #74
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I'm in NC, our instructor kept things very simple, I agree this is a VERY complex 'what if' scenario indeed. I'm by no means an expert on the laws here in NC..
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:28 AM   #75
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I think one of the major problems with today's society is the willingness to look away when somebody else is in need. I think this rates well above many other issues that people blame for the decline of American society (I will not list the others for fear that will derail this thread).

Why is it that we have to be related to the victim before we can wade in and offer assistance without fear that we will be vilified and prosecuted for our actions? Why have we gotten to this point where it is "safer" to call 911 and not get involved?
Some of them wont even call 911. "They know my number! They'll come get me and MAKE me testify in court!" No one cares for his fellow man anymore, as it might take 15 minutes out of their busy life to make a statement. Regardless of the consequences, I will still follow the Golden Rule so I can sleep at night.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:44 AM   #76
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[quote=Vikingdad;1298789]

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Originally Posted by vincent View Post
[SIZE="4"]


There is no way of knowing, but even if the "victim" (or the person on the receiving end of the beat down) did something heinous that is not how we, as a civilized society, deal with that. There are legal avenues for that sort of thing.

And once those avenues have been explored and if the outcome is not just, then you take care of the motherfukker in private, not on a public street.

Or you could do like Ellie Nessler did and cap the dude in court. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellie_Nesler

since when does the bystander get to mete out justice? IMO, you stop the attack and let LEO's sort through the mess. vigilante justice just doesn't cut it. even if the so-called "victim" is the real criminal, we can't allow ourselves to stoop to that level. i have to agree with you on this Vikingdad.

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Some of them wont even call 911. "They know my number! They'll come get me and MAKE me testify in court!" No one cares for his fellow man anymore, as it might take 15 minutes out of their busy life to make a statement. Regardless of the consequences, I will still follow the Golden Rule so I can sleep at night.

well they can come get me to testify! i would do it gladly to get some lowlife scumbag off the streets for even a short while. i couldn't sleep a night or even be able to face looking at myself if i didn't do something if i were able to.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:52 PM   #77
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I think one of the major problems with today's society is the willingness to look away when somebody else is in need.and
You are right, but I think that situation primarily exists because of such a ligitious society we now live in. Granted, there are people who don't want to get involved because they are either afraid or want to mind their own business....but we have reached a point in society where you can get sued for just about anything.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:42 PM   #78
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You are right, but I think that situation primarily exists because of such a ligitious society we now live in. Granted, there are people who don't want to get involved because they are either afraid or want to mind their own business....but we have reached a point in society where you can get sued for just about anything.
I think that overall people are good and would like to help others, but modern fear of litigation has caused the sea change away from a charitable society to what we have now. The root of this evil (and yes, it is evil) is our legal system and lawyers. Now we have a damned lawyer in the White House...... AGAIN!!!

What the Hell is wrong with the American voter? Oh yeah, it started back in the Wilson administration.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:08 PM   #79
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There are always actions that can be taken but they arent often coming in like Walker, Texas Ranger. Domestic disputes are very often more volatile than robbery and other assaults; all the sudden you turn around and your the criminal the grieving wife is accusing of killing her one love in this world and all you did was save her life.

We dont get retakes if it goes wrong. The Ifs, but's and maybe's of non specific instances are likely too numerous to consider usefully. In the end, situational awareness is the biggest factor in how I will react to anything.

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Old 07-09-2013, 09:14 PM   #80
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I would really hope that the beating victim was Barack Hussein Obama or his wife or a bear.

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