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Old 08-16-2013, 06:39 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by JW357
Ok wow. I had avoided this thread like the plague until last night. I finally decided to read through it.

I finally finished, and let me tell you, it was a ride. This thread went from a hypothetical situation to state laws to batons to grammar lectures to personal battles to TR to.. Geeze I don't even know.

For what it's worth, if anyone cares what my opinion is, which I'm sure no one does - I basically agree with Axxe55 and a few others. I would feel obligated to get involved in some manner. That doesn't necessarily involve a firearm. But it would involve yelling at the "attacker" and if that doesn't work attempting to physically separate the two individuals. Granted, I don't know all he facts of the situation, and in that regard I would of course use restraint. As soon as the attacker tries to hurt me, I will defend myself.

I am comfortable in my own physicality and training that I would be able to physically intervene, even if he had a baseball bat. I'm not saying I guarantee I would be successful. But the way I see it, the Corps has given me respectable training and I would feel obligated to act accordingly and attempt to de-escalate the situation. If my goal is de-escalation, honestly the totality of the situation doesn't matter. A husband beating his wife? It doesn't matter. Revenge? Doesn't matter. The background, history, reason this is happening, who the actual aggressor is, none of that matters to me. Because I am only trying to de-escalate the situation, and not necessarily with a firearm, until the police arrive. I forgot to say he first thing I would have done is called 911.

As stated, as soon as I have to defend my own life, all bets are off.

I'm sorry I bumped this thread. I felt obligated to post SOMETHING after the marathon of reading through it. And I realize I am just making it that much more difficult for the next guy that comes along to finish the thread. *shrug* There has been some good points of view presented here, though.

For the record, I suggest everyone who chooses to carry a firearm, and who is physically and financially able, to also get some basic martial arts training. The reason is several fold: first, it might open up your mind to the possibility that there are other avenues of defense aside from a firearm or a knife (and will help you to utilize said avenues); next, it will instill mental discipline which is handy for everything in life, but especially high stress situations; it might actually help in this hypothetical instance of knowing what exactly to do.

Sorry for the long response.
No,..thats really a very good resp. to this JW! Although I'm not in the same health I was at 19-24 & into my early 30's...I have studied On & off since the age of 12(Judo, JuJitsu, Kempo & Kendo, and briefly Tae Kwon Do) never got past Brown in one and intermed. levels in the others(Blue, Purple, Green Etc...) I think a little Basic training in ANY form of Weaponless SD helps not only mind-set but situational awareness.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:11 PM   #212
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Someone posted a reference to a TV show where there were debaters discussing attacks and "What would you do" scenarios. I think I saw part of the same show.

A guy was kicking a female (wife, girlfriend, or acquaintance). A man stopped and drew his pistol. He told the man to stop and get on the ground. He called 911. The attacker got on the ground then began to get up and go at the man with the gun. This happened 2-3 times. The man with the gun ordered him to stay on the ground with a very stern voice.

I thought for sure the attacker was going to ignore the man with the gun and keep going at him. I wish he had. I am more curious what the man with the gun would have done under attack than with the attacker cooperating with his demands.

===

I believe the first action is calling 911 perhaps even before getting out of your vehicle or making yourself accessible to an attacker. Keep the line open.

Then keeping your distance and make your demands. Ask questions if you can.

Keep the line open with the 911 person so they can hear everything said.

Let the attacker know that if they dont cooperate you will will defend yourself if they approach you.

Let your demands be heard by the 911 person.

===

Now, if it comes down to defending yourself, do you shoot to kill or wound? How many times have you heard/read about wounded persons suing someone for injury?

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Old 08-16-2013, 10:56 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by wittmeba View Post
Someone posted a reference to a TV show where there were debaters discussing attacks and "What would you do" scenarios. I think I saw part of the same show.

A guy was kicking a female (wife, girlfriend, or acquaintance). A man stopped and drew his pistol. He told the man to stop and get on the ground. He called 911. The attacker got on the ground then began to get up and go at the man with the gun. This happened 2-3 times. The man with the gun ordered him to stay on the ground with a very stern voice.

I thought for sure the attacker was going to ignore the man with the gun and keep going at him. I wish he had. I am more curious what the man with the gun would have done under attack than with the attacker cooperating with his demands.

===

I believe the first action is calling 911 perhaps even before getting out of your vehicle or making yourself accessible to an attacker. Keep the line open.

Then keeping your distance and make your demands. Ask questions if you can.

Keep the line open with the 911 person so they can hear everything said.

Let the attacker know that if they dont cooperate you will will defend yourself if they approach you.

Let your demands be heard by the 911 person.

===

Now, if it comes down to defending yourself, do you shoot to kill or wound? How many times have you heard/read about wounded persons suing someone for injury?
you shoot to stop the threat. not to wound or to kill, but simply to stop the threat. you shoot until they are no longer a threat, whether that be one round or six rounds. if they are wounded then so be it. if they are killed, then so be it. but your response is that you were in fear for your life and you were trying to stop the threat.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:01 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by wittmeba View Post
Someone posted a reference to a TV show where there were debaters discussing attacks and "What would you do" scenarios. I think I saw part of the same show.

A guy was kicking a female (wife, girlfriend, or acquaintance). A man stopped and drew his pistol. He told the man to stop and get on the ground. He called 911. The attacker got on the ground then began to get up and go at the man with the gun. This happened 2-3 times. The man with the gun ordered him to stay on the ground with a very stern voice.

I thought for sure the attacker was going to ignore the man with the gun and keep going at him. I wish he had. I am more curious what the man with the gun would have done under attack than with the attacker cooperating with his demands.

===

I believe the first action is calling 911 perhaps even before getting out of your vehicle or making yourself accessible to an attacker. Keep the line open.

Then keeping your distance and make your demands. Ask questions if you can.

Keep the line open with the 911 person so they can hear everything said.

Let the attacker know that if they dont cooperate you will will defend yourself if they approach you.

Let your demands be heard by the 911 person.

===

Now, if it comes down to defending yourself, do you shoot to kill or wound? How many times have you heard/read about wounded persons suing someone for injury?
How about (if you are in a car and it's a residential-ish area) leaning on your horn and flashing your high beams?

Cause a big enough commotion and people will take notice. Heck, some people might even call the cops because of the disturbance.

I've done something similar when I was younger. Set off car alarms when I saw someone getting beat up - I was 14 and small, stepping in would have landed me in the hospital too. As soon as they heard those alarms go off, they split.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:27 AM   #215
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not everyone can physically intervene in the brutal attack of another person to help them out, due to many different reasons, health, overall size difference or many other reasons, but that doesn't mean that a person can't do something to help out. call 911, watch and observe so at least you are a reliable witness if needed. honk the horn, flash lights, holler at other people to get involved, do something, anything to try and stop the attack.

many people just don't want to get involved. they figure it's not their business or problem. the way i see it, when someone attacks another person in public, then it's everyone's problem. it says that we are free citizens and are civilized to the point that we will not tolerate such behaviour in our society. by not doing anything at all, it says we at least condone such activity, because we didn't speak out against it. i'm sorry but thats just not my personality or in my ethics to ignore such things and to even allow others to think i condone such behavoiur.

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Old 08-22-2013, 02:33 AM   #216
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not everyone can physically intervene in the brutal attack of another person to help them out, due to many different reasons, health, overall size difference or many other reasons, but that doesn't mean that a person can't do something to help out. call 911, watch and observe so at least you are a reliable witness if needed. honk the horn, flash lights, holler at other people to get involved, do something, anything to try and stop the attack.

many people just don't want to get involved. they figure it's not their business or problem. the way i see it, when someone attacks another person in public, then it's everyone's problem. it says that we are free citizens and are civilized to the point that we will not tolerate such behaviour in our society. by not doing anything at all, it says we at least condone such activity, because we didn't speak out against it. i'm sorry but thats just not my personality or in my ethics to ignore such things and to even allow others to think i condone such behavoiur.
Honestly, Axx, I would hesitate to get more involved than calling 911. Cause I don't know said people, and how do I know who is good or goblin?

Kinda beating a dead horse here, but how do you know who the criminal is if you drive up on an odd situation? Could be a roll of the dice depending on the situation.

It is not that I don't care, but I have seen what the legal system can do.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:44 AM   #217
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Cause I don't know said people, and how do I know who is good or goblin?
That's why I said my goal is to de-escalate the situation. With my strategy, it doesn't matter who is bad or good. I'm trying to separate them and de-escalate everything until the cops arrive.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:01 AM   #218
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That's why I said my goal is to de-escalate the situation. With my strategy, it doesn't matter who is bad or good. I'm trying to separate them and de-escalate everything until the cops arrive.

Rock on Sir!

Just not for me. Not my job to de-escalate a situation I know nothing about.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:23 AM   #219
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personally, i won't recommend, suggest or even advise others what to do in some of these given situations. that is where they have to look at their own morals and ethics and decide what their conscience can live with in any give situation in regards to another person being brutally attacked.

i only give my own impressions based off what has happened to me in the past and my own actions and what i feel i should do to be able to look myself in the face everyday and to be able to live with those decisions. doing what i feel is right and ethical and to deter a violent or brutal attack on another person is more important to me than what is legal or is politically correct.

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Old 08-22-2013, 05:55 PM   #220
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That's why I said my goal is to de-escalate the situation. With my strategy, it doesn't matter who is bad or good. I'm trying to separate them and de-escalate everything until the cops arrive.
There is a big difference between 'mutual combat' and felony assault!!!
Without a program it's hard to know the players. This started out about how to handle a violent assault, not two guys/gals trying to settle their difference.
If this is a violent assault there is no 'de escalation', only the need to 'stop' the assault before any further injury is inflicted on the victim by the victimizer!
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