If somebody is getting beat or hurt and your armed what would you do? - Page 10
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Old 07-22-2013, 05:18 PM   #91
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I can't say what a judge or police officer may believe about the legality of intervening to prevent someone from being beaten to death, raped, or robbed but I don't think I could live with myself if I had the means and opportunity to prevent something like what the OP described.

All the street fights I've ever been involved in would not have ended any better than they did with a firearm vs without a firearm. It's still a good idea to have a firearm as an option but rather the situations where actually using it would be beneficial are somewhat limited.

One of the reasons I try to impress upon people who make the decision to carry a concealed weapon that they need some hand-to-hand training is that often using a weapon of any kind is not an option due to the speed with which someone can assault you and the fact that no matter how vigilant you think you are, if you are in close contact with other people at some point you will not be able to focus on everyone else around you for whatever reason.

If your only option to deal with someone who is or may become violent is lethal force using a weapon of some kind, then if you can't employ that weapon, if it's taken away from you, or if you don't have it with you, then all you have is a crutch and a poor one at that. Yes, there are people who, because of physical disabilities, will only be able to effectively use a firearm.

Yes, using a firearm a 95 pound woman can more easily contend with a much larger and stronger man, but only if she has her firearm with her, if she knows when to use it, and if she keeps her assailant out of arms reach. Those are some pretty substantial "if's".

Basically, the situation that the OP described doesn't have any universally applicable solution.

If other people are around, I'd instruct someone to call the police. If no one else is around, then I would call the police and instruct the homeless man's assailants to stop and step back. If that doesn't work, then it may be necessary to intervene.

I refuse to be a spectator to rape, robbery, murder, or medical emergency and can't understand how other people could simply watch something like that. Some is better than none. Waiting for the police or EMS to arrive is effectively "none". If you don't have any, get some training. Guns are just one tool, not the only solution to all of life's problems.

Even if the homeless man was a serial child rapist who just raped the daughter of the man beating on him, he needs to be convicted by a court and caged, not beaten to death by a man with a bat. If it were my daughter, of course I'd be angry, but beating the man to death with a bat would make me no better than him and no different than all the rest of the animals we have locked up in cages.

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Old 07-22-2013, 09:14 PM   #92
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If you where driving down the street or shopping and you witness a homeless man getting beat kicked spit and getting hurt what would you do? You are a legal ccw owner, how would you handle the situation? I was watching a tv showed called what would you do, they used actors and it was all an experiment to see what bystanders would do. One experiment was with a rubber fake bat as a weapon and the other they were unarmedNone of the bystanders had firearms but say if you did and you legally own and carry one what would you do? Would you mind your buisness and let someone else handle the situation? Would you intervene? Would you unholster your weapon and ask them to walk away then call the police? Would you be mr hero and point your gun at them and attempt to aresst then? Would you just keep walking and ignore it and pretend you didnt see it? Please tell me what you would do if this situation ever happens atleast we would know what the majority of us that carry firearms would do share what you would do and why please
You can 'what if' all day long and not even come close to what you or anyone else would do or how they would react to this situation!!!!
I would 'get involved', but to what extent would depend on more factors than you can possibly imagine. I have a wealth of street experience to draw from which gives me a real advantage over the 'average' CCW holder or any other person with no LE experience and even at that it is impossible to say EXACTLY how I would handle this as it is a very dynamic and metamorphic situation!!!
"Do what ever you must do, but be right when you do it!" Jim Rau circa 1970's
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:55 PM   #93
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I would 'get involved', but to what extent would depend on more factors than you can possibly imagine.

Yeah, there's all kinds of x-factors here. All I know is that I couldn't let an innocent person die if I felt I had the ability and opportunity to intervene without depriving my sons of a father.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:38 AM   #94
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You can 'what if' all day long and not even come close to what you or anyone else would do or how they would react to this situation!!!!
I would 'get involved', but to what extent would depend on more factors than you can possibly imagine. I have a wealth of street experience to draw from which gives me a real advantage over the 'average' CCW holder or any other person with no LE experience and even at that it is impossible to say EXACTLY how I would handle this as it is a very dynamic and metamorphic situation!!!
"Do what ever you must do, but be right when you do it!" Jim Rau circa 1970's
Great post Jim, and that last are words to live by. There is no way to be 100% sure of what one would do in the situation described in the original post. As you said, too many variables. Some very good points to ponder here.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:53 AM   #95
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When I started reading this thread I thought I knew what I would do. But now, as it progressed I have changed my mind. If I was in a vehicle, I would stop and call the police, from a safe distance. Everyone has a cell phone now so I think that is a safe bet that it will be an option. Should I get physically involved.....? I don't think that I would. I'm not a police officer. I CCW because I want to protect myself and my family in the event some aggressor was after me, or my property. I think it would take a very extreme situation involving others for me to draw my gun. Perhaps a warning, perhaps a yell to the person(s) who are attacking. I really don't know. I think it's dangerous to let the fact that you carry change the way you address situations. I would hope that I could keep my composure and do the right thing, only drawing if it became an absolute necessity. And I hope that I have the common sense to know when that happens.

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Old 07-24-2013, 12:23 PM   #96
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I'd ask the victim if he had the $50,000 that it would cost me to shoot somebody in his defense? If not, I'd ask him why he was not ccwing a gun himself?

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Old 07-24-2013, 07:51 PM   #97
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I'd ask the victim if he had the $50,000 that it would cost me to shoot somebody in his defense? If not, I'd ask him why he was not ccwing a gun himself?
so for you, defending an innocent person or doing the right thing comes down to a matter of money? you're the type of person that is part of the huge problem we are facing now. doesn't want to get involved because you're afraid you might get sued or worse.

frankly, money or worrying about lawsuits doesn't stop me from doing the right and just thing. i guess i was taught a higher set of values and ethics than you were.

BTW, not everyone wants to carry a gun for their own reasons. again not something i would consider in doing the right thing.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:34 PM   #98
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u sound like a millionaire. Go for it. Money doesn't come that easily for me. Also, I know way too many dozens of homeless, for instance, who are where they are because they are lazy, drunk, dopers. Far more often than you are aware, that "victim" did something that would have enraged anyone (like default on a debt). Now if it's a little kid, and the attacker is obviously not the parent, and is way out of line for it to be "discipline" that's different, and while I probably WOULD intervene, I'd not hang around and wait to be crucified by this wonderful society of ours, either.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:05 PM   #99
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Fortunately the Martin-Zimmerman incident is the exception not the rule!!!
If you have not 'crossed the bride' yet (some call it baptism by fire) you don't know just how you will behave in 'combat'! Training helps, but until you are 'in it' you don't know what you will do. MOST PEOPLE will react properly and fall back on their training and instincts, but some will not.
But even for those of us who have 'crossed the bridge', as I said above, it is impossible to predict our exact response. 'Imprinting', which is the process of going over in your head possible scenarios and variables, and training will help somewhat, but here is not substitute for experience.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:13 PM   #100
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u sound like a millionaire. Go for it. Money doesn't come that easily for me. Also, I know way too many dozens of homeless, for instance, who are where they are because they are lazy, drunk, dopers. Far more often than you are aware, that "victim" did something that would have enraged anyone (like default on a debt). Now if it's a little kid, and the attacker is obviously not the parent, and is way out of line for it to be "discipline" that's different, and while I probably WOULD intervene, I'd not hang around and wait to be crucified by this wonderful society of ours, either.
not anywhere close to millionaire by a long shot. i work extremely hard for every dollar i earn and have for many, many years. and for some of those homeless, well a reality check for you partner, due to the increasing decline of the economy and the loss of well paying jobs, there are many more homeless through no fault of their own. but it must be easy for someone like you to sit and be so judgemental of others less than fortunate affairs. but please, continue on with your selfish and inconsiderate ways. it speaks volumes of your character, or lack of.
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