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the heat of battle ?


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Old 07-15-2011, 03:02 AM   #41
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Tailypoe,

You get a few things right, example is that the discussion is speculative and no one wants to have to decide this stuff in a hurry.

Then you seem to get a brain fart or vapor lock and say something totally whacko. You seem to think shooting a hand or arm or legs or shins is an easy accomplishment and if you canít do it your, how did you put it,

ďif you're right across the room and you can't plug a hand, your coordination is wiggedy wiggity wack. I can get decent groups at ten yard, guaranteed. Anyone with two eyes and ten fingers can . ..Ē

and this is total BS.

A normal person who does not have training is going to have trouble with the adrenalin dump and the shaking that comes with a situation as we are discussing and even if they are expert shots might miss a person at 5 feet.

Hell son, even experienced police officers have missed, repeatedly, targets at 5-10 feet in a life and death situation. Your mental belief could cost you your life so I would suggest you rethink your idea of shooting a subjects hand or arm as that is stupid.

Oh, and yes I do know what Iím talking about as I have walked the walk and thatís why Iím here to talk the talk.

Scubie
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:28 AM   #42
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all i can say is thank god for training. dad always said he hates going to training, but after it hes always glad he went, and i follow the same point. the most important anyone can go under is stress inoculation. the more scared you are made, and actions you are made to preform in that time, is the ones seared into your head over any normal range time. trapped in a room with 7.62 blanks going off, strobe lights, loud music, and using only a paint ball mask and gun for training purposes brings to light, at least to a point, getting shot hurts, and hitting the bad guy when everything you know is thrown out of ballance, and hes employing training hes recieved, is alot harder than hollywood makes it out to be.

It is natural for people to flee from the sound of gunfire, then there are those that bred themselves to run towards it.
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:02 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Rick1967 View Post
If you pull a gun...it better be loaded!!!!
Indeed ... If you have no loaded firearm, it is best that you just put up your hands and cooperate.
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:58 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tailypoe View Post
well, obviously, explicitly, and for the last time, this is all speculative , what-if type stuff.
no one wants to have to decide this kind of stuff in a hurry, and usually, you can't. that's the way of the world. but i can dream.
usually you can see someone's legs and usually people respond to getting their shins cracked open .
I think I would be dreaming if, five years later I'm at the LGS, regaling Frank

and the guys with the tale...

"Yeah, so the bad guy had his hand up, an easy shot,even with a pistol,

when my life was in danger, so I nailed him in the grabber!
The guy lived,

went to prison, AND he never sued me! Can you imagine?"
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Old 07-16-2011, 09:39 PM   #45
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'QUOTE=Dzscubie;541658]Tailypoe,

A normal person who does not have training is going to have trouble with the adrenalin dump and the shaking that comes with a situation as we are discussing and even if they are expert shots might miss a person at 5 feet.

Hell son, even experienced police officers have missed, repeatedly, targets at 5-10 feet in a life and death situation. Your mental belief could cost you your life so I would suggest you rethink your idea of shooting a subjects hand or arm as that is stupid.

Oh, and yes I do know what Iím talking about as I have walked the walk and thatís why Iím here to talk the talk.

Scubie[/QUOTE]
u are right. mostly..
this obviously isn't a gunfighting scenario, quit dogpiling on me guys, it's not really a brain-block so much as free association.
this is supposed to be a place where u can discuss such things.
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Old 07-16-2011, 09:44 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcprofessional View Post
all i can say is thank god for training. dad always said he hates going to training, but after it hes always glad he went, and i follow the same point. the most important anyone can go under is stress inoculation. the more scared you are made, and actions you are made to preform in that time, is the ones seared into your head over any normal range time. trapped in a room with 7.62 blanks going off, strobe lights, loud music, and using only a paint ball mask and gun for training purposes brings to light, at least to a point, getting shot hurts, and hitting the bad guy when everything you know is thrown out of ballance, and hes employing training hes recieved, is alot harder than hollywood makes it out to be.

It is natural for people to flee from the sound of gunfire, then there are those that bred themselves to run towards it.
then there are those who innately hunker down and pop out to scan. .. like me . i happen to value my own life quite a bit, I've got some important stuff coming down the pipes, so there's no way I'm ever going towards the sound of a gun.
.. I have been in high-stress, dangerous situations before, the fear of death usually tells u what to do . .
.. there's a reason we have survival instincts, we'd all be dead without em ....
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odd : " oppositional defiance disorder. ", AKA having a spine. me to a tee.

... if the mafia was any bigger, it'd be our govt.
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Old 07-16-2011, 09:48 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
I think I would be dreaming if, five years later I'm at the LGS, regaling Frank

and the guys with the tale...

"Yeah, so the bad guy had his hand up, an easy shot,even with a pistol,

when my life was in danger, so I nailed him in the grabber!
The guy lived,

went to prison, AND he never sued me! Can you imagine?"
i have the legal drop on someone if they're assualting me. doesn't matter if we're in north korea, being up in my haunt with a pistol is cause for swift, descisive action. . . . . .
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" guns are awesome, necessary & everyone should have one " - All of the founding fathers, especially Jefferson.
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hoplophobia. : irrational fear of weapons as opposed to people.
odd : " oppositional defiance disorder. ", AKA having a spine. me to a tee.

... if the mafia was any bigger, it'd be our govt.
god guts gold guns, yeehaw
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Old 07-16-2011, 10:50 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Koga149 View Post
Let me break this down as I see it, and anyone please feel free to crucify my way of thinking. Maybe I'll learn something new.

In carrying a weapon, you are prepared. But I was always taught that as soon as you skin that gun, You've escalated the situation and odds are only one of you is leaving the situation outside of a body bag.

Basically, make &^%$ sure you are sure before you use it, and once you decide to, double tap-- start at the center mass and button his shirt for him. Only two, unless he keeps moving. If he keeps moving, reconsider your self defense caliber of choice.
Dr. John Lott, authored the book "More Guns Less Crime" after concluding research for some anti-gun organization only to find that ordinary US citizens use guns (mainly handguns) an average of 2.5 million times each year to stop criminal attacks/offenses, often without firing a shot.

In real life a determined adversary rarely goes down after a couple of shots. I'd suggest you find and read a copy of "Street Survival" published by Calibre Press. It's a little dated now, but still very much relevant. Also do a bit of research into the 1986 FBI shooting in Miami. That event, more than any other brought about the revolution in handgun ammunition into the numerous bonded JHP loads available today.

Determined individuals and those with certain drugs in their systems can and do continue fighting until their central nervous system (CNS) has been severed, or due to massive blood loss. Handguns are generally poor fight stoppers, regardless of caliber or bullet type (although the modern bonded JHP loads available today were all designed to penetrate barrier materials yet still expand and penetrate a minimum depth of 11 or 12" in 10% ballistic gelatin.

The now "old school" principal of a controlled pair (a.k.a. a double tap) has since been replaced universally in every police and firearms training facility in the US I'm familiar with by advising their students to fire center of mass until the threat is no longer a threat to you.

One's mindset plays a huge part in how easy or hard it is to stop them, i.e. if someone has seen a lot of movies and have told themselves that they "know" they'll go down (and possibly die) if they're ever shot that's exactly what their body will do if they're ever shot, regardless of whether the wound was crippling, life threatening or not. The reverse mindset is that they'll keep fighting no matter what, a.k.a. the survivalist mindset.
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:22 PM   #49
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Hey, like i said, crucify me. I learned something. But! In my defence, i'm only 17 here, and that was just of july 12 that i turned 17. So, hey , i tried to get my two cents in. E for effort, right?

Yeah, which in real life, could turn into "D" for dead, or "S" for

sued back into the stone ages...
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Old 07-17-2011, 07:51 PM   #50
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since he is only 17, it would be his parents that would be sued. He is safe from a suing
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