the heat of battle ?
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:41 PM   #1
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Default the heat of battle ?

My gun i.q. is very low. I have a limited experience with handguns
, and a life time of shooting off a few rifles, mostly rimfire and air-guns. ,The what of what i'm getting at here is, I have no proper feild training. We all watch a lot of movies, and i often find my mind wondering / wandering to what i would do in the type of situation hollywood presents me with.
beyond firearms, what do you do when ppl are attacking you ?
my general philosophy goes sthg like this, there are 2 distinct modes. :
• 1 : defense mode : If someone is attacking you, and you feel ready to shoot to defend your life, incapacitate them, and anyone else immediately threatening you with ballistics.
• 2 : cause mode : You're fighting for the safety of your country or other people, kill indiscriminately, but be smart and don't look for trouble.

I run across people with conflicting philosophies on shooting to kill, and I know it's easy to get lost in battle and turn the killswitch on to just rage,
,there are some systems of elevated, color-coded threat levels, and some other fun stuff, but none of them are very helpful morally to me.

but what do you guys think about defending yourself with a loaded weapon ? I don't judgje ppl who feel threatened and plug someone a couple times, but i could personally never reconcile shooting someone in the head for a home invasion or assualt, that's a killing that would haunt me to my grave.

I don't rationalize or moralize about people's deaths, ultimately, they are people just like me. If someone's out to kill me, tho, I'll mow 'em all down with impunity. there's a thin, almost invisible line.
what do you guys think is normal, and what do you think is excessive ?
thanks - H.T. .

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Old 06-30-2011, 07:55 PM   #2
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I am no expert; i don't carry or anything (other than in the car). IIRC, the law in most U.S. areas allows that you can use deadly force to defend yourself if you feel that your life is in eminent danger. I believe this also extends to the defense of others very near you, but that may not be the law in all places. In other words, if you don't want to go to jail, make sure you only use deadly force when you REALLY are in fear for your life.


I would save the mowing for the zombies.

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Old 06-30-2011, 08:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
what do you guys think about defending yourself with a loaded weapon ?
Well, it works much better than an unloaded weapon.


I'm going to apologize up front here- Do not mean to be talking down to anyone-

I have been involved in shootings. Military and otherwise. The concept of "I'll just shoot to wound him..." is about a false as you can get. Frankly, it can be damned hard to hit a moving person. Add in that you are moving at the same time- it is a LOT harder than it looks.

There was a discussion the other day about "Shooting to STOP". With very few exceptions, that is what you are doing- if you hit him in the head, it was likely a fluke.

As far as killing somone during their attempt at a home invasion- I would sleep just fine, thanx. That is about as personal a crime as you will find this side of rape and forcible sodomy. They were not kicking in your door to sell you girl scout cookies (except East LA- damned TOUGH Girl Scouts there). What do you think they intend to do when they set out to committ a violent act? Car Jacking is another on the list. If you politely tell Mr. Jack that you do not want to play, he is not going to walk away.

If a person's actions put me (a textbook example of Reasonable Man) in fear of death or serious injury, you have just forfeited any moral grounds for remaining uninjured, up to an including dying for the very bad choice you made.

Shifting gears, from a military perspective, I am a retired Infantryman. The stated mission of the Infantry IS " By means of fire and manuever, kill, capture, and destroy the enemy. " That's my job.

It has been said that "A brute kills for pleasure, a fool kills from hate." I would kill of necessity to stay alive- and to preserve the lives of family and friends.
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Old 07-01-2011, 07:13 PM   #4
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Default hm.

don't want to sounds like i'm making some flippant post here and building my morality on it,
i guess i just wanted to bounce this off of u guys. I know there is killer instinct in all of us that can take over.
I'd far rather turn someone in to the law than have to explain why I wasted them.

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hoplophobia. : irrational fear of weapons as opposed to people.
odd : " oppositional defiance disorder. ", AKA having a spine. me to a tee.

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Old 07-01-2011, 08:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Well, it works much better than an unloaded weapon.


I'm going to apologize up front here- Do not mean to be talking down to anyone-

I have been involved in shootings. Military and otherwise. The concept of "I'll just shoot to wound him..." is about a false as you can get. Frankly, it can be damned hard to hit a moving person. Add in that you are moving at the same time- it is a LOT harder than it looks.

There was a discussion the other day about "Shooting to STOP". With very few exceptions, that is what you are doing- if you hit him in the head, it was likely a fluke.

As far as killing somone during their attempt at a home invasion- I would sleep just fine, thanx. That is about as personal a crime as you will find this side of rape and forcible sodomy. They were not kicking in your door to sell you girl scout cookies (except East LA- damned TOUGH Girl Scouts there). What do you think they intend to do when they set out to committ a violent act? Car Jacking is another on the list. If you politely tell Mr. Jack that you do not want to play, he is not going to walk away.

If a person's actions put me (a textbook example of Reasonable Man) in fear of death or serious injury, you have just forfeited any moral grounds for remaining uninjured, up to an including dying for the very bad choice you made.

Shifting gears, from a military perspective, I am a retired Infantryman. The stated mission of the Infantry IS " By means of fire and manuever, kill, capture, and destroy the enemy. " That's my job.

It has been said that "A brute kills for pleasure, a fool kills from hate." I would kill of necessity to stay alive- and to preserve the lives of family and friends.
great post, aim for center mass this isn't call of duty where you get points for head shots. Also dead people don't sue, and I would hate to be pulling an unloaded fire arm to save my life, at that point talking is over anyway shoot to kill.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailypoe View Post
don't want to sounds like i'm making some flippant post here and building my morality on it,
i guess i just wanted to bounce this off of u guys. I know there is killer instinct in all of us that can take over.
I'd far rather turn someone in to the law than have to explain why I wasted them.
as a former law enforcement: unless you have gone through a law enforcement academy and are currently employed as a peace officer you should not be trying to apprehend anyone. detaining a person isnt like what you see on tv. a good portion of the time it involves a rather spirited life and death physical wrestling match. you dont have a helliwood writer determining your outcome.

goal of self defense: stop the goblin or make the goblin flee. anything else goes above and beyound self defense and can land you in prison.

as a civilian: i will personally never attempt to stop a goblin from fleeing unless he is an obvious continous danger to myself or a third party (like the shoe bomber AA flight 63 or laughner in AZ). in that case self defense rules still apply. the ONLY time i would entertain the idea of detaining a goblin is if he voluntarily sits down and gives up without further conflict to await the arrival of the LE folks.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:58 PM   #7
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None of us really want to kill another human being.
However in the event that that person would have no
qualms about killing you or your family then it behooves
you to rise to the occasion and see that that fiend would
never harm another again.

I see that you are from Canada. It might be quite different
there as far as violence goes. But here in America violence
is as natural as breathing to the 'unenlightened'. And
unfortunately the instinct of self-preservation rather kicks
into gear quite early here.

Another thing. Home invasion is invading one's home. And
they usually do it without greeting cards. Most bring weapons
of destruction.

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Old 07-02-2011, 07:15 AM   #8
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If you do shoot a hostile person, you "shoot to disable", not to kill.. If it happens to hit in a vital area and the attacker/ invader dies as a result, that is that person's own fault.. **** happens, but you cannot say with absoulte certainty that your round will land where it was aimed, especially in the heat of the moment when your adrenaline is pumping. This is what I was taught in MP school, this is how I operate.

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Old 07-02-2011, 08:50 PM   #9
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Wound the BG? It's a personal defense weapon for Christ's sake, NOT a public service announcement! - cane

I don't shoot to kill, I shoot to live.

The following is a highlight from Read this before you decide to carry!

I need to emphasize the gravity of this carry decision with these two points;

A. Use your head (your most powerful weapon) and only draw and fire your weapon to save you or someone’s life. This is the only righteous shooting. Anything else will find you in a cage or a box. Long before you put yourself in the ‘shoot’ position, you better have completed all the legal requirements that allow you to be there. In addition you must complete the following personal conditions;
  1. Training,
  2. Understand and accept the moral obligation that the issuing authority extracts from you when you applied for the CCW license,
  3. Training,
  4. The moral mettle to take a life,
  5. Training,
  6. Know and keep up on the laws covering carry in the location you are armed (political boundaries and building restrictions),
  7. Training,
  8. At a bare minimum have a gun rights lawyer’s phone number on your cell’s speed dial,
  9. Training,
  10. Retain that lawyer if you can afford it,
  11. and did I mention training?
B. See A or you will get yourself killed!

We are neither a vigilante nor a hired gun, just a survivalist.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:07 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Koga149 View Post
If he keeps moving, reconsider your self defense caliber of choice.
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