[Overkill0084]

For the purpose of this thread, I'd like to avoid the politics of this issue. My biggest issue is safety of me & mine.
I worry about this because of the potential for loss of life and the deep legal hole that one could be dropped into should you shoot before the LE identify themselves. Theoretically, in some locations, one could shoot through the door legally. Maybe not the best of ideas, but theoretically not illegal.
I don't understand how this sort of thing continues to happen. Seems to me that one of the first things one should do before kicking in a door, would be to verify the correct address.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/01/31/fbi-uses-chainsaw-in-raid-on-wrong-fitchburg-apartment/

Thoughts?

[orangello]

Personally, I prefer a good double-bladed axe over the chainsaw for gaining entry. Always wanted a old-school fireman's axe.





edit* Seriously though, I think this guy did the right thing given similar circumstances. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corey_Maye

[trip286]

That's just great. If it were me, I'd have been shot dead for opening fire, my family probably wouldn't even be able to sue, and the anti gun crowd would be screaming for more gun control. Chicago, anyone?

While at the same time, the anti gun crowd would also be dragging my name through the mud as a vigilante, murderer, anti social, militia, racist, redneck, freak.

[JonM]

Thats actually happened with those insane no knock warrants. Homeowners have been shot for shooting at cops who were in those crazy burgler ski masks in black gestapo uniforms breaking down the wrong door serving no knock warrants.

My take is the issuing judge should be brought up on charges for even granting such a warrant. Its irresponsible.

[orangello]

Originally Posted by JonM

... ski masks in black gestapo uniforms ...

Can somebody explain to me the purpose of those uniforms, because i have wondered about that before. Were i a LEO about to go through a door, i would want to be smurfy freakin blue all over with my badge at center mass and the stereotypical flat-topped uniform hat glued to my helmet for easier identification.

I'm not trying to be a dick here; i want to know the logic. It doesn't seem like they are trying to camoflage and blend in to the background. When they get the correct door and are bursting in on a meth cook or something, does being dressed like a ninja make the tweekers less likely to mount a defense? Now, if they came in with ice cream man uniforms on over vests, i could understand, maybe as postmen or utility workers.

[robocop10mm]

Black is slimming. Really, black makes you look more imposing. The "fear factor" is at play here. SWAT teams across the country are abandoning the black and going with more inncouous colors. Our teams have gone to OD. It blends in better and avoids that "ninja" stigma.

No knock warrants are the huge exception. Every warrant service requires a detailed Threat Assessment be done. It drives my Patrol guys nuts that I make them do one for every warrant service they want to attempt. It is CYA. They start to understand the complexities of the situation when they do the assessment themselves. There has to be specific articulable facts presented to justify a no knock warrant. Just because the BG will likely destroy evidence is not good enough. Of course he will destroy evidence, that's what they do.

[orangello]

Originally Posted by robocop10mm

Black is slimming.

Just because the BG will likely destroy evidence is not good enough. Of course he will destroy evidence, that's what they do.

I knew it was fashion related!

But seriously, i have heard sooo many stories about the trailer raids when the Sheriff turns off the water or makes his least favorite deputy pull the drain hose to prevent flushing. I wouldn't want that job.

[Belltactical]

The rationale is that it's a psychological advantage. When you kick in the door, you want to look scary. The thinking is that this provides an advantage in the takedown. I could be wrong but I believe it goes back to LAPD SWAT when they re-vamped their pp&w back in the early 80's withe the loving advice and assistance from the FBI HRT.

[mrm14]

Wonder if this is the kind of saw they used?

http://www.fire-end.com/k12saw.htm#K-12 Rescue

Firemen and other agencies claim the K-12 is "the key to the city."

[trip286]

Originally Posted by mrm14

Wonder if this is the kind of saw they used?

http://www.fire-end.com/k12saw.htm#K-12 Rescue

Looks like it would be much quicker handling than a standard chainsaw.