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-   -   Draw, Rack Slide One-Handed on Glock 23? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f55/draw-rack-slide-one-handed-glock-23-a-49426/)

TekGreg 10-07-2011 03:31 AM

Draw, Rack Slide One-Handed on Glock 23?
 
I just found this YouTube video and was amazed that it was even possible! The question is, do you think this could be trained to the point it could be done with gross motor skills so it could be considered a life-saving tactic (FTF, FTE when wounded), or will this always require fine motor skills? Please explain your thoughts and reasoning, if you'd be so kind.


BenLuby 10-07-2011 05:18 AM

Potential life saving skill, with several caveats on how and where. You're the victim of a BG. Round one from him catches you off guard, and connects, your arm is now incapacitated.
If you aren't locked and cocked, you're screwed, unless you develop a suitable ability to do a one handed Rack.
Now, this would also require that you can shoot effectively one handed. Most people are good shots with two on a range. How many are good with one in a panic, with only one arm?
Or the off hand? I hated off handed training, until I got used to what I was doing.
Second situation, BG is in close proximity, and you have to use your free hand to parry a knife/pipe/insert weapon here.
Being able to rack em up one handed, again, comes in very handy here, as well.
Could you do it injured? Yep. As long as you're not incapacitated and retain your focus, you can, with practice, do this.
Now one other thing on this? You better make sure you have a gun that CAN be done in that fashion. You get a beater with a stiff slide? If you can barely do it two handed in a good situation, how well do you think you can do it with one hand in a crunch?
(It would also benefit you, depending on just how seriously you take your personal practices, to practice doing a one handed cross body draw and rack with your weak hand, as you could actually be hit in your dominant arm.)
Man I sound paranoid. (Yes, I've done just what he did before. Been years, and it was a quality firearm (1911, Colt.)
But it does take practice.

Jpyle 10-07-2011 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenLuby (Post 595551)
Potential life saving skill, with several caveats on how and where. You're the victim of a BG. Round one from him catches you off guard, and connects, your arm is now incapacitated.
If you aren't locked and cocked, you're screwed, unless you develop a suitable ability to do a one handed Rack.
Now, this would also require that you can shoot effectively one handed. Most people are good shots with two on a range. How many are good with one in a panic, with only one arm?
Or the off hand? I hated off handed training, until I got used to what I was doing.
Second situation, BG is in close proximity, and you have to use your free hand to parry a knife/pipe/insert weapon here.
Being able to rack em up one handed, again, comes in very handy here, as well.
Could you do it injured? Yep. As long as you're not incapacitated and retain your focus, you can, with practice, do this.
Now one other thing on this? You better make sure you have a gun that CAN be done in that fashion. You get a beater with a stiff slide? If you can barely do it two handed in a good situation, how well do you think you can do it with one hand in a crunch?
(It would also benefit you, depending on just how seriously you take your personal practices, to practice doing a one handed cross body draw and rack with your weak hand, as you could actually be hit in your dominant arm.)
Man I sound paranoid. (Yes, I've done just what he did before. Been years, and it was a quality firearm (1911, Colt.)
But it does take practice.

Check out some of the IDPA "course of fire" designs. They focus on those exact scenarios.

BenLuby 10-07-2011 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jpyle (Post 595565)
Check out some of the IDPA "course of fire" designs. They focus on those exact scenarios.

The more I hear about this IDPA, the more interesting it sounds. I'd like to, after some more practice, shoot steel or pins, but the IDPA is what really sounds interesting.

TekGreg 10-07-2011 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenLuby

The more I hear about this IDPA, the more interesting it sounds. I'd like to, after some more practice, shoot steel or pins, but the IDPA is what really sounds interesting.

Who's got IDPA experience here and have you ever shot this tactic in a course? Have any advice on this move when people are trying it?

Jpyle 10-07-2011 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TekGreg (Post 595626)
Who's got IDPA experience here and have you ever shot this tactic in a course? Have any advice on this move when people are trying it?

Not sure that the particular action shown in the video would be permitted for safety reasons but many CsOF do include one handed strong and weak hand firing.

International Defensive Pistol Association - Tactical Journal Article

IGETEVEN 10-07-2011 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TekGreg (Post 595626)
Who's got IDPA experience here and have you ever shot this tactic in a course? Have any advice on this move when people are trying it?

They do not teach that tactic in any IDPA course or shoot.

Now, I have had quite a few small weapons tactical shooting and training courses, and some will teach you one handed slide racks and reloading as part of the course, and you would never see them used in a sanctioned IDPA competition, but in real life.....one just never knows. :cool:


EagleSix 10-07-2011 05:10 PM

Video 1, a negligent discharge in the making!

Video 2, one way to manipulate the slide one handed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TekGreg (Post 595453)
~~ The question is, do you think this could be trained to the point it could be done with gross motor skills so it could be considered a life-saving tactic (FTF, FTE when wounded), or will this always require fine motor skills? ~~

Tek,

One handed manipulation of the slide has been around ever since they made the first slide. Why using two hands is more prevalent is probably because, we found using two hands to shoot is easier, faster, better! That is, usually.....for most beginners......and, usually the one handed manipulation skills are considered advanced, and usually reserved for 1-on-1 or classroom teaching by most schools. For those new to defensive type shooting or have not as yet attended formal training, video 1 may come as a surprise.

Two hands will/may, provide us a more solid platform for shooting that first shot, provide a more stable repeat shot control, and using two hands to manipulate gun handling is more efficient, because we can use two hands simultaneously to accomplish things like loading.

Video 1: It's not what the guys is doing, or how he is doing it, but the way he appears to be going about it.....that may be leading him into a negligent discharge......sooner or later.

I don't recommend carrying most pistols with an empty chamber. Doing so, and using video 1 method to become battle ready is one method, however it has not proven to be as efficient or safe as carrying a quality gun, designed for condition 1, in a quality holder.

There are however many reasons why we may need to manipulate the slide one handed. One of those methods to do so, is by dragging the slide along our body and/or hook the rear sight on some body gear to facilitate manipulating the slide effectively enough to load a round, similar to video 1. Another method is demonstrated in video 2. There are many more. Most of the methods we use, can be applied to almost all carry type handgun.

The problem I have with video 1, it appears the person is trying to be as fast as possible.....meaning, as he practices this skill, he will get better and better, faster, and faster, until his maneuver becomes somewhat of a "trick shot". Many toes, knees, ankles and legs have been shot by doing similar type "fast draw" manipulations. There is some value learning to manipulate the slide with one hand using the method he is demonstrating in video 1, however I would caution students about the speed and approach.

We do not publish these methods, because we feel they are much better demonstrated to the students live during a class, allowing the student an opportunity to perform and develop these skills in a controlled environment under the watchful eye and guidance of our instructors.

Can we be more effective using two hands to shoot and manipulate our handgun.....yes, by all means. We should also keep in mind it is called a "hand-gun" for a reason. If it were designed initially to use two hands, it would be referred to as a "hands-gun" and Colt would have probably put two grips on the Peacemaker (I'm so glad he didn't because that would have spoiled the balance for twirling!!).

Handguns, pistols, revolvers......they were designed to shoot with one hand. Doesn't mean we cannot use two hands, and most people shoot and manipulate their handgun easier and better using both hands. However, especially in a self-defense reference, consider there may come a time in a fight when we only have one hand to use our gun. Gun fighting is not only about being able to hit a target, it also includes handling the gun....manipulating to keep it shooting.

For most students who have attended intermediate or advanced handgun training, these one handed skills are known well. Just about every quality school teaches them. And, the methods we use for one handed manipulation of the slide are gross motor skills, not minor.....loading magazines one handed is another story.....!!!

.

IGETEVEN 10-07-2011 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TekGreg (Post 595453)
...do you think this could be trained to the point it could be done with gross motor skills so it could be considered a life-saving tactic (FTF, FTE when wounded), or will this always require fine motor skills?

Sometimes you don't even need hands. :cool:


EagleSix 10-07-2011 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGETEVEN (Post 595895)
Sometimes you don't even need hands. :cool:

Thanks for posting......I went to find this video to include in my previous post and couldn't locate it......this guy is amazing!

.


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