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Old 10-08-2010, 07:25 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by CatalinaCruiser View Post
You have to do the personal study but training with a group and with someone who will challenge what you think you know is the only way to find new levels of capability and understanding.
Exactly what I asked for in my original post, the mere mention of that type of question seems to have brought on a lot of negative emotions...ppl replying to me stating I have to be trained and have to train but how dare I look for a class, or training group for coaching and assistance, much the same way a personal defence class is run...but to be honest I am not going to bring all that back up again,...I would be interested in hearing more about the EP training you have done and what not...E-mail or PM me, give me all the info
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:05 PM   #12
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If you live in So. Cal. take a look a Tacfire. They offer beginning and advanced pistol practice twice per month.

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Old 01-20-2011, 03:01 AM   #13
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I read your post with interest as I have the same question. However, I had the pleasure of taking the 250 course at Gunsite back in 1981 when Col. Cooper taught it himself. A wonderful combination of firearm training, basic drills, simulations and most importantly mental conditioning. I went on to take a more advanced course for a total of 8 days training on this subject. I am now searching for similar training for my 15yr old and am not finding much other than Thunder Ranch (booked solid for 2011) and Gunsite. So, it looks like we will find the time/money and book a trip to AZ for a week. Based on my experience, the total immersion at Gunsite for 5 days was totally worth it.

As a side note, there were all kinds of experience levels in the class and the improvements made by all the students was impressive. In the second class I took, I was clearly the "weakest link" but benefited by all the impressive LE and Military folks in the class. Sorry I could not help more than this, but the 250 class at Gunsite would proably give you the solid foundation you are searching for, and really help with the process should you ever need to use this training.

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Old 01-24-2011, 10:49 PM   #14
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Greebo; I had never really thought of it that way but you have a good point. Most of us would love to go to Thunder Ranch, Gunsight, or Frontsight, but its exspensive and even if we can go, most of us can't afford to do it over and over again. Say for example, you take your initial CCW class, 8-10 hours of emersion in the basics. You get your cert, send off for your permit, then continue with short evening classes, maybe 2 hours every week or two. The instructor has a lesson plan each time where he demos a new skill, a liitle classroom, a little range time, and you just continually build your skillsets. Thats basicaly how we train our volunteer firefighters. We get them through an orientation, teach them where things are and enough to keep them from getting themselves or one of us hurt, then we continue to build their knowledge with 2 or 3 hour classes on weeknights or Saturdays. Eventually we will put them through a full fire accademy, but meanwhile they are learning and becoming good firefighters. And when they do get to go through the accademy, they find it much easier, and develope their skills far better.
This is a great idea and I'm going to talk to some local trainers I know to see if they think it could fly. I hope you will do the same there.

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Old 01-24-2011, 11:23 PM   #15
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Nebraska CCW Training by Gun-Safe Academy
Took about 2 minutes on Google.
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:29 AM   #16
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The key is regular training with dry practice to reinforce the details of what was learned in training. I take an advanced tactics course from Front Sight every 6 months or so. It's 2 days of scenario training where you're out of the square range mentality, in simulators, homes, at ATMS, in cars, etc. But you need a membership to reduce that cost (you can pick up the all inclusive memberships for $1000 or so). Then it's just travel time, hotels and ammo. But you do that a couple times a year and it's not bad.

Then you reinforce that training with consistent dry practice several times a week. The thing that's critical, though, is to get some range time otherwise your body goes back to the bad habits when the gun starts to go bang. Dry practice is critical but you need some actual firing once a week or every 2 weeks.

And if you really want some serious training, take the Advanced Scenarios class at Front Sight where you go force on force with Glock 17s and simunitions. That's about as real as you can get without going to the hospital.

This will create that muscle memory. And the regular training in scenarios (NOT running a square range against static paper) will ensure the accuracy and tactics don't break apart in a real situation. You can do a tactical reload after every shot on a range but when you're in a scenario, you'd be surprised to see how few people actually think to do that.

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Old 02-02-2011, 07:57 PM   #17
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Greebo, you may have moved on. Sorry, I read this thread three times and do not understand what you are looking for. All the answers were good and covered a wide range of options for you to investigate and find a match to your requirements. There is no perfect answer.

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Old 02-03-2011, 11:17 AM   #18
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Greebo, you may have moved on. Sorry, I read this thread three times and do not understand what you are looking for. All the answers were good and covered a wide range of options for you to investigate and find a match to your requirements. There is no perfect answer.
Octalman, tell me this, how often do you train with your firearms? How often do you spend the hundreds of dollars needed for the big classes? Alternatively I don't just mean standing at a range and calmly going through a box or 2 of ammo but how often do you have an instructor go through drills, situation awareness, defensive tactics - both in home, car and on the street, or drill defensive responses for when your in trouble alone versus when you will need to defend some one else?

Instructors talk a lot about muscle memory and drilling something into both your body and mind until it becomes your first response regardless of the stress levels around you, something which only happens if it is practised all the time. Imagine if there was a small class that you could go to every couple of weeks.

Now imagine a range that has an instructor available that will take a group of ppl for a couple of hours every 2 weeks and drills them in all of the above, allowing muscle memory to fully set in, to smooth off any rough edges or bad habits. I am not talking about any of the big advanced level pistol classes (nothing against them it's just that not everyone has +$100 and 8hours to spend every couple of weeks), but on the other hand if there was an instructor available to take 10 ppl at say $50 (my pistol range allows 10 at a time, if yours holds more, increase the number), you enrol in the class, you go twice a month, lets say for 90mins to 2 hours and the class begins with drills been shown and you practice them, instructor walks back n forth stopping and re-showing anyone doing it wrong etc....class ends with a talk on situation awareness and maybe homework - before next class practice 'blah' etc. - works on the same basic principal as a boxing instructor, or possibly like a golf pro at a driving range who's job it is to keep an eye on a group of ppl and let them know when they notice something wrong (stance, grip etc).

Now, you state all of the answers were covered, they were not....a lot of ppl either told me such a thing does not exist (which I already know) or told me that there were many advanced level courses from 8hrs to 5 days available costing probably into the thousands when combined with the money lost from taking time off work (which I am also aware of). People got defensive, angry and scared when I spoke about my belief that maybe it would be a good idea to offer some form of small constant training.

I hope this helps to clarify my original post.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:35 AM   #19
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People got defensive, angry and scared when I spoke about my belief that maybe it would be a good idea to offer some form of small constant training
I just read thru all the posts, I don't think anyone here was getting "defensive, angry or scared".....simple fact is, what you are talking about doesn't exist, I don't think its a bad idea, however I also don't see it as working out to be a sound business plan either as I don't think there is a large enough customer pool to support the cost of running it.....if you disagree I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Till then, I will echo what others have said, take as many courses as you can and then practice practice practice what you have learned both dry and live.
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:12 PM   #20
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Greebo,

Thanks for the additional information and clarification. I too have been looking for routine and advanced training. There are at least 6 facilities in my region that offer basic, intermediate, and advanced training. Each facility also offers 1 on 1 or small group custom training. The instructors have either LEO, NRA, or Military experience. There are other facilities I would say lean toward the more advanced training such as Frontsight, High Caliber Training, and Tac-Pro.

Over the years, watching and talking with skilled shooters has been valuable. They usually can provide insight or suggestions that make a big difference. Soak up as much knowledge from them as possible.

Even with 30+ years of shooting, still plan on more training. Right now trying to decide which advanced class fits my needs and schedule. My research indicates that resources at all levels are available for advanced classes, small group training, or 1 on 1. As others have said - practice, practice, practice. Don't claim to know it all, but do know enough to practice on my own and improve.

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