Defeat a sniper quickly?
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Training & Safety > Defeat a sniper quickly?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-11-2014, 04:22 AM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
beastmode986's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: California
Posts: 967
Liked 158 Times on 111 Posts
Likes Given: 171

Default Defeat a sniper quickly?

I wasn't sure where to put this and it might be a stupid question, but could snipers be "obsolete"(not really the right word?)? Say a sniper had to take out a well guarded and important target. Couldn't he easily be spotted and killed if someone had a thermal scope since they pick up heat? I know they have there place in the field because not everyone has thermal scopes and what not but if someone does, they could easily be spotted and taken out right?


Sent from my iPhone using Firearms Talk

__________________
Lord, Make me fast and Accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me the victory over my foes and those that wish to harm me and mine. Let not my last thought be “ If only I had my gun” ; and Lord if today is truly the day that You call me home , Let me die in a pile of brass.
beastmode986 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 04-11-2014, 05:25 AM   #2
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Axxe55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Deep East Texas Pineywoods!
Posts: 28,501
Liked 21302 Times on 12086 Posts
Likes Given: 53065

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastmode986 View Post
I wasn't sure where to put this and it might be a stupid question, but could snipers be "obsolete"(not really the right word?)? Say a sniper had to take out a well guarded and important target. Couldn't he easily be spotted and killed if someone had a thermal scope since they pick up heat? I know they have there place in the field because not everyone has thermal scopes and what not but if someone does, they could easily be spotted and taken out right?


Sent from my iPhone using Firearms Talk
a lot of that depends on the range of the thermal scope. snipers usually operate from long distances, which is one element they use to their advantage.

IMO, i think many are being used in more urban environments than in some of the past conflicts where snipers were used and the distances they operate at normally are not as far. they are still used for long distance purposes and still taught to shoot long distances though and more than likely will always be. an urban environment has a different type of ingress and egress than a wooded jungle or desert environment.
__________________
Coming from the Village of the Damned.
To the victor, go the spoils of war.
Axxe55 is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 07:16 AM   #3
Devil's Advocate and Provocateur
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
TekGreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cincinnati,OH
Posts: 1,863
Liked 1319 Times on 689 Posts
Likes Given: 606

Default

You have to realize that most items, including thermal scopes, do not work as well as portrayed in Hollywood. There are some practical points that would not make the thermal scope the be-all, end-all to snipers.

First, thermal detection devices require a difference to work properly. Humans at 98.6 F usually stand out on cool nights easily. But if it is hot out, or the sun is heating up vehicles or corrugated steel on buildings, it gets harder to differentiate a human from objects nearby.

Second, deploying thermal scopes to everyone on a protection detail can be financially prohibitive. Even though there is usually some money floating around, special equipment like this is only distributed on an as-needed basis when it is likely to be needed, and then only to a select few. Breakage, loss and theft would quickly make the costs spiral out of control, so snipers are unlikely to face them en masse while on a mission.

Thirdly, what Axxe said about operating distances. Trained snipers could conceivably target the thermal-armed guard before he gets seen.

Fourth, thermal does not see through cover, concealment or the Earth. Hiding behind a tree, building, in a bunker or a log-covered hole can seriously reduce or eliminate thermal signature, meaning that a sniper using cover could complete his mission without ever getting spotted.

Finally, if a sniper either knows he'll be facing thermal scopes or discovers it before being killed, he could take certain precautions to negate it. Wearing neoprene or other heat-dampening materials would foul the heat signature, making identification harder, the sniper could also employ solid cover through most of his approach, or even do something as simple as releasing a herd of animals for hundreds of heat signatures or as vicious as making one huge signature - start a fire, or fires. He could use a corrugated metal shed to hide in or even under a hot vehicle where his signature would blend.

That was just off the cuff and would obviously require greater detail and planning, but it gives an idea of how thermal could at least be challenged by a well-trained professional.

__________________

.
.
“Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." (I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.). Thomas Jefferson

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

-Edmund Burke, Loosely translated from Thoughts on the Cause of Present Discontents. (1770)


Last edited by TekGreg; 04-11-2014 at 07:19 AM.
TekGreg is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 07:27 AM   #4
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Axxe55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Deep East Texas Pineywoods!
Posts: 28,501
Liked 21302 Times on 12086 Posts
Likes Given: 53065

Default

another point is this. at what distances are thermal devices good for? if a sniper is at say 300-700 yards away and even in somewhat in the open, would a thermal device be able to read his heat signature at thos ranges?

and like any highly sophistecated electronic device, the higher the quality and resolution it can operate at, the higher the cost involved.

__________________
Coming from the Village of the Damned.
To the victor, go the spoils of war.
Axxe55 is offline  
TekGreg Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 12:53 PM   #5
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northeast San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,634
Liked 753 Times on 504 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

the best civilian models of thermal imaging devices are easily over $30,000 and thats for the civilian ones. The LE/Military versions cost waaaaay more and are not much better than the civilian ones. The previous posters brought up tons of great reasons why thermal is not the end all be all of snipers, but you also should watch this skip to 17 minutes in and it will discuss a tactic that sniper use to hide and make a shot without being detected.

__________________

this message was sent using my Barrett 50 straight to your brain.

seancslaughter is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 07:30 PM   #6
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,170
Liked 5732 Times on 3358 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

Now, if you were to mount your thermal imaging device on a small, remote-controlled aircraft, that might make things a bit more difficult.

__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 07:37 PM   #7
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Decisive Terrain
Posts: 2,030
Liked 1357 Times on 688 Posts
Likes Given: 1011

Default

Speaking asymmetrically, most of the guys we've been fighting don't have access to thermal scopes or anything we'd consider even mildly sophisticated. IEDs are about as creative as they get. If we go to war with a major power we may have to rethink a few things...but as long as they're running around with AKs and setting boobytraps I think our snipers still have the edge.

__________________
Marines, Infantry
145th Airlift Wing, NCANG
NRA Life


Stay smart, stay motivated, stay dangerous
7point62 is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 11:18 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
beastmode986's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: California
Posts: 967
Liked 158 Times on 111 Posts
Likes Given: 171

Default

All good points ^^^ I was thinking the same thing yesterday, what happens if its really hot outside?


Sent from my iPhone using Firearms Talk

__________________
Lord, Make me fast and Accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me the victory over my foes and those that wish to harm me and mine. Let not my last thought be “ If only I had my gun” ; and Lord if today is truly the day that You call me home , Let me die in a pile of brass.
beastmode986 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 11:38 PM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MoreAltitude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 448
Liked 156 Times on 93 Posts

Default

There have been counter sniper systems in use for many years. They use acoustical triangulation which I've heard some can locate down to the 10 meter range (or they advertise as much). I've never seen one in action in real life...

__________________

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved

MoreAltitude is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 12:03 AM   #10
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
John_Deer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,880
Liked 1505 Times on 1020 Posts
Likes Given: 526

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreAltitude View Post
There have been counter sniper systems in use for many years. They use acoustical triangulation which I've heard some can locate down to the 10 meter range (or they advertise as much). I've never seen one in action in real life...
I can't remember what city tried to deploy a system that was supposed to lead officers to gun fire. After they wore out all their patrol cruisers on false alarms they decided that triangulation only works on paper.
__________________

Nothing in the affairs of men is worthy of great anxiety - Plato

John_Deer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
N.Y. defeat boatme98 The Club House 4 09-20-2013 02:21 AM
Victory For Gun Rights: Halligan goes down to defeat AR10 Legal and Activism 5 03-09-2013 04:23 AM
US Quickly Losing Ability To Compete alsaqr Politics, Religion and Controversy 42 09-09-2012 02:21 PM
They grow up way too quickly downsouth The Club House 19 03-26-2012 04:11 PM
techniques to defeat thermal imaging mikewalker Survival & Sustenance Living Forum 22 08-11-2008 11:32 PM