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-   -   Combative Applications of Competitve Techniques, Part I (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f55/combative-applications-competitve-techniques-part-i-4769/)

rhodieusmc 06-03-2008 11:48 PM

Combative Applications of Competitve Techniques, Part I
 
by Mike Seeklander

I've been asked many times, "Does 'practical shooting' under the stress of competition offer training benefit to those who want to use these skills for 'combative' purposes?" My answer is a strong yes, and I plan to break down why in this article. This is a two-part article, where I will try to draw correlations between the two areas (combative and competitive) in each of the five critical skill-sets in part I. In part II we will break down each of those skill-sets and discuss training concepts for each area. What's in it for you? Civilians who use practical shooting as a testing ground for their ability to perform under stress will get that process validated. If you carry a firearm professionally, hopefully this will help you convince your supervisor or training coordinator to let go of some ammunition and perhaps a couple hours of training time to test your skills in a local match.

Why listen to me? Consider my background. Competitive experience: I am a card holding GM in USPSA, Master in IDPA, and a Master in the NRA classification system. I have done well in pretty much every major match and have more than 10 years competing against the best shooters on the practical shooting circuit. Combative experience: I am a former Marine with combat experience (if Desert Shield/Storm counts as combat!). I have local and federal law enforcement experience, including more than 10 years as a full time instructor or lead instructor a portion of which I was in charge of the Federal Air Marshal (FAM) firearm-training program during the FAM buildup after 9/11. I have had the privilege of working with some of the best Military and Law Enforcement Instructors in the United States, and I credit all that I submit to you in this article to folks I have worked with and learned from. What should this mean to you? It means I have done my homework in both arenas and can hopefully offer some insight into how "practical shooting" translates to quality training for combative purposes.

G21.45 06-04-2008 04:06 PM

:) OK, good. I just subscribed to this thread. So, now, go for it!

npbwbass 06-04-2008 07:05 PM

I am on board
 
Quality information from a great source! I am there.

BigO01 06-04-2008 09:19 PM

Might be interesting despite reading similar articles over the years .

As far as Desert Shield/Storm being combat experience uh well I guess for some it was I also think like Nam there are more guys with war stories out of there that never did anything more dangerous than withstand the heat in a uniform .

After all you hardly had the most well trained and motivated opponent . I recall the video of 20+ Iraqi "Soldiers" surrendering to a camera man and him walking them quite a long way back to Allied lines once the ground "War" started .

Saddam's "mother of all Wars" quickly turned into the Mother of all Surrenders , rivaling anything in history that even the cowardly French would be hard pressed to match .

Boris 07-03-2008 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigO01 (Post 26789)
Surrenders , rivaling anything in history that even the cowardly French would be hard pressed to match .

What an ingnorant statement, what do you know about the French? Well clearly from that statement absolutly nothing.....I could give you a list but I have a feeling that it would be pointless......while you think of your next smart remark that the French military who where instrumental in the recovery of the three American Operatives (held captive since 2003) along with the other 11 hostages freed from Columbia yesterday.

Dillinger 07-03-2008 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris (Post 30213)
while you think of your next smart remark that the French military who where instrumental in the recovery of the three American Operatives (held captive since 2003) along with the other 11 hostages freed from Columbia yesterday.

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Here's some quotes from the paper in your home country.

Quote:

The hostages only realised that they were being rescued when they were in the air and one of the soldiers pretending to be a guerrilla shouted out: "We are the Army of Colombia, you are free."

The rescue is a political and military coup for the Oxford-educated President Alvaro Uribe.

He had been under pressure from France, where President Sarkozy made Ms Betancourt's release a foreign policy priority
Quote:

( Washington was ) keen to see its three citizens, Keith Stansell, Marc Gonsalves and Thomas Homes, rescued without injury.

The three men were part of a five-man crew of a spy plane that was taking pictures of drugs crops and guerrilla camps in February 2003.
Hardly "Operators" - One man, Stansell is listed as an Avianoics & Electronic Spe-cial-ist.

Quote:

France sent a mission to Colombia in April in an attempt to provide Ms Betancourt with medical treatment, but negotiations with rebels broke down.

French president Nicolas Sarkozy thanked his Colombian counterpart and called on the rebels to end their "absurd" struggle.
While I understand that Sarkozy kept the issue in the public conscious, and exerted pressure on the Colombian President to get Ms. Betancourt back, though there isn't much mention of the other hostages in the early stories, it's not like it was French Commandos swinging in on Fast-Ropes and saving the day.

Give the Colombian Army their due, this was their operation - Not troops from France and not troops from the US.

Boris 07-03-2008 12:52 PM

JD: Not a stretch at all, the DRM and DGSE have been working on it for some time.......I didn't say that French Special Forces where directly involved......Heaven's forbid that anyone from this Forum will give the French any credit for anything, just because they don't choose to shout about it does not mean they don't get after it, when it's in the French national interest. Just because their assistance was not mentioned in the press does not mean their was no direct assistance. It was an outstanding job by the Colombian Army (for once), and that should be an indication right there.......

While your talking Special Forces they have units rated in the top #3, and their Police Tactical Teams, the GDGN and GDPN are also extremely good.

Dillinger 07-03-2008 02:29 PM

Boris - I have a counter opinion to this position and have posted it in the "I Disagree with Your Post" Thread in the Club House.

To the Thread Starter - I apologize for participating in this hijacking of your thread. You are new here and obviously trying to contribute some great information. This was not fair to you, or your experiences, in one of your first threads. This is an unfortunate by product of an ongoing battle across many threads that really needs a home where it can be re-referenced when a new disagreement arises.

Please continue with the tutorial as I definitely would like to hear what you have to teach.

Again, my apologies.

JD

BigO01 07-03-2008 04:55 PM

Quote:

What an ingnorant statement, what do you know about the French? Well clearly from that statement absolutly nothing.....I could give you a list but I have a feeling that it would be pointless...
Ignorant ?

American men had to go over there not once but twice to liberate their pathetic asses from the Germen's in the last century .

I know my father was one of those and I know the disdain he and dozens of former American soldiers had for them from my time spent at the VFW with my parents raising money for VFW programs .

One old boy whenever the French were mentioned on the television there would always stand , raise a glass and toast "Viva La Pussies !!!" and the room never failed to fill with laughter .

I also know when America bombed Libya they dared to tell us we couldn't fly over their country apparently they wouldn't want Gaddafi thinking they took a stand on anything .

Personally Reagan should had ordered every craft to fly over their national capitol with F15 escorts and dared the little bitches to send up their Mirages for a fight !

O and by the way the next time you want to call some one ignorant try at least spelling the word correctly !

hydrashok 07-03-2008 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigO01 (Post 30260)
O and by the way the next time you want to call some one ignorant try at least spelling the word correctly !

...you're kidding, right??


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