You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - > General Firearms Forums > Training & Safety >

Combat Accuracy

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-14-2010, 09:41 PM   #21
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
canebrake's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 150 miles NE of Sloppy Joe's Bar
Posts: 21,941
Liked 1482 Times on 824 Posts
Likes Given: 1290


*** bump ***

Get her dirty, then clean her so she starts to respect you. When her trust is complete, she will serve you well for a lifetime!

"...if doves shot back, there wouldn't be a need for a bag limit."
- orangello
canebrake is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:16 AM   #22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Ploofy's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,206
Liked 57 Times on 42 Posts
Likes Given: 22


Not sure if anybody else posted this, cause I'm too lazy to read all the posts, but a shot to the bladder can be devastating if its full. Especially with a large caliber weapon. If I remember what one of my Sgt.'s said, the urine will be thrown in all directions at great force, destroying internal organs and slaughtering the circulatory system. Hard to live when your blood is half urine or spilling into your intestines.

EDIT: Most useful against drunks or druggies. More likely to have full bladders.
Ploofy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 05:24 AM   #23
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
russ's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Junction,Colorado
Posts: 1,016
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 1


Good stuff Cane. Just read through it all again.
russ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 10:24 AM   #24
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
DrumJunkie's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Here in the holler....
Posts: 4,823
Liked 1619 Times on 945 Posts
Likes Given: 1894


There's a lot of good reading here.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
DrumJunkie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 12:59 AM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1
Default Training

You don't rise to the occasion, you default to your level of training!
Sur5er is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 01:05 AM   #26
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 38
Default We Never Stop Learning

I really appreciate these perspectives and am thinking I may want to attend some civilian training. My own training is purely military and quite different. I taught marksmanship and such from the platform to the range as a Basic Training Company Commander, a role I mirrored more recently as a contracted Senior Trainer in Iraq. I also spent years in hundreds of high fidelity simulated combat operations with MILES systems, using laser bullets, all over the world where we learned how to shoot and move against an enemy that was shooting and moving against us. The lessons learned in those exercises were all validated and served me well in some even higher fidelity exercises in Iraq against an opponent firing real rounds.

In that experience I learned that marksmanship is all well and good, but tactics are even more important. Getting the enemy to stop being a threat is just as good as killing him. This "mission abort" objective is a lot easier too. All this analysis of hitting your opponent in the torso, the head, etc. is very interesting. Personally, Id rather give him the chance to raise his hands in surrender. Most folks will choose life over death when push comes to shove. Not always, but usually. In my own experience, hitting the bad guy almost anywhere takes the wind out of his sails and motivates him to go home. If thats not an option, surrender becomes an attractive alternative to dying. Admittedly, my experience is against enemy combatants only motivated by religious fanaticism, although I have trained to fight and win against professional Warriors like Speznaz and such too. I always thought these guys were the top of the line enemy. I am somewhat amazed to hear that local criminal types are more dedicated, will fight to the death through the pain, carry on with their mission of stealing your TV after being hit, and remain undaunted in the face of a determined defender in a way rarely encountered in actual combat. Silly me. It seems criminals are cut from "hero cloth" to a degree I never knew. In combat, the enemy seems to get discouraged a lot quicker. In my humble experience, if you hit an enemy in the arm. the leg, or even the pinky, his immediate reaction is to duck down, hide, rethink what he is doing and seek alternatives. He isnt renewed by the wound and motivated to run at you firing furiously. I guess I should be glad that we only face organized terrorists, not street thugs, in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Another tactic I learned to appreciate was SUPPRESSION. If you cant actually HIT your enemy, hitting AROUND him will keep him from moving, firing back, or even poking his head out to look around. I was once in a situation where three bad guys kept an entire squad of Marines pinned down for twenty minutes while they called for help. With no fire support at their disposal, I would think that thugs would simply have left the area if faced with such a determined defense. Maybe Im wrong again.
It would seem to me that all this analysis of hitting the Torso, the Thoracic Cavity, the Cranial Ocular Band, the Neck, the Pelvis, the Central Nervous System, etc. may result with a hit at a critical point in the bad guys anatomy, but misses the critical point of what you are trying to accomplish. Getting bad guys to stop and run away is good enough for me as a private citizen. I would also suspect that a surrendering bad guy is preferable to a dead bad guy to a LEO. Neither of those things require a dead-nuts hit in the Pump House.

It certainly seems that the dedicated, heroic, and brave thugs out here present a lot more serious threat than the military has ever faced. I need to get to a civilian training course ASAP. Failing that, I need to put down my combat operations manuals and pick up a copy of Grays Anatomy.
AARguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 03:59 AM   #27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
zhuk's Avatar
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sydney, Aust
Posts: 2,031
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts


Very interesting read, cane. Obviously hypothetical from my end, but it does 'concentrate the mind' to consider the gravity of what you would have to consider in a self-defence scenario. Heavy responsibility when you weigh the specifics of what you must be prepared to do...and not coming from a culture which supports the basic concept, have to say its really very foreign.

Admire you guys prepared to step up to that particular plate.
Illigitimi Non Carborundum - Don't let the bastards grind you down

Originally Posted by skullcrusher View Post
Yes, at WalMart, you can pick up a gun, ammo, ski mask and your antidepressants all in one trip. Darn convenient if you ask me...:D
zhuk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 08:44 PM   #28
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Closest metro = Denver,CO
Posts: 15

good post. Thanks.
oscar615 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2011, 11:34 AM   #29
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wimberley,Texas
Posts: 13

Since this this thread contains a few Suarez Int. articles I thought I'd post a more recent one for discussion.

You Don’t Know What You Don’t Know by Gabe Suarez

We have heard that term before, but I want to discuss it a little bit more because recently, at warriortalk, and other places, I have seen the resurgence of stuff that we dealt with many years ago. It seems as if every so often, the same people “rediscover” the things that they thought they knew.

We all recall the story of the blind men and the elephant. In various versions of the tale, a group of blind men touch an elephant to learn what it is like. Each one feels a different part, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then compare notes and learn that they are in complete disagreement. The problem was that no one man, had the vision that would have allowed him to see the elephant for what it truly was.

Do we see that in the training world today? Oh you bet we do. The problem is that there are some blind men that like to wear what they have done in the past like a flag…or perhaps a billboard, in the hope of giving them more credibility over the other blind men. These guys will grab on to the elephant’s tail hard (or other body part if you will) and exclaim loud and hard, “You see. I have personally grabbed this elephant therefore I, or others who have grabbed this tail right here, like me, can tell you the truth about this animal”.

And the billboards they wear coupled with the vociferocity of their message makes them almost beyond reproach. "Good heavens", their devotees would say. "How could you possibly question him....he was assigned to......"

But the sad part of it is that they do not realize that they themselves are in fact blind to the rest of the massive animal before them. The blind leading the blind.

Take for example a police SWAT shooter. The man may have been in a half dozen gunfight on SWAT operations with his team. One would say this man surely has seen the whole elephant no? He went to battle with six or seven other guys, and attacked a target when the bad guys were at a disadvantage with overwhelming force and superior weapons. Certainly a noble action, but how does that compare to the nature of entire animal? That’s only one part, and as we will see, the trunk has little to do with the tail, and neither of them is indicative of what an elephant is like.

Another example is the military operator. The man may have killed 200 or more enemy soldiers while on infantry operations, or direct action assignments. Surely this man has an understanding about the elephant does he not? He assaulted a compound that had been under satellite surveillance for a week, where he knew contained exactly how many guys. The fast movers above softened it for them and they attacked the enemy and shot them to pieces. The courage of this man is beyond question, but again, what about the entire animal?

Do either one of those sound like a gunfight you might be in tonight, or during the next riot or unexpected event?

A third example is maybe that of a CCW man. He is not and was never a cop nor a soldier, but he carried a pistol and one day some bad guy tried to carjack him. He did everything wrong, but he still managed to prevail in the fight. Alright…certainly this guy has an understanding of the animal right? No…only another body part.

All three of these fictional examples are like the blind men who are very good at explaining the nature, texture, and smell of their particular experience, but all of them have only seen that, and are missing the complete image and experience.

The HRT/SWAT guy crashing a door into a fortified “crack house” has very little in common with what a lone private citizen CCW operator may have to face when dealing with a trio of gang members bent on his death. And the Delta shooter hitting a target with his team has little to do with how a trio of business owners caught behind the curfew in New Orleans, or Los Angeles need to operate to stay alive and get home. And none of them have much similarity in tactics to the lone operator in a third world country, finishing an assignment and then having to get home.

Trunks and tails, eyeballs and a**holes – they are all a part of the animal, but nobody, and I mean nobody, no matter what their background was, has been everywhere and done everything. And if they tell you that, or insinuate that, they are liars my friends.

So where does that leave us. Our goal is still to identify, study and dissect that massive beast – the elephant. Fortunately, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. And the one-eyed man has enough vision to gather all the blind men and debrief them.

That is exactly what I have tried to do with my organization. To gather as many blind men as I can, citizens, cops, soldiers from many armies, even some guerrilla fighter irregulars, good guys, bad guys, and the undecidedand, and bring them under one roof taking lessons from them all, offering some positions as instructors, and getting the information out to our students, regardless of position, or assignment, or status, what in the hell this elusive animal, the elephant, looks like.

Want to know what an elephant looks like? I have the men that can show you each part.

Last edited by jrfctx; 02-19-2011 at 11:36 AM.
jrfctx is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Wilson Combat Sponge 1911 Forum 25 11-08-2012 05:47 AM
Combat Drills McNabb11b General Handgun Discussion 3 03-01-2009 04:07 PM
COMBAT: Stance EagleSix Training & Safety 17 11-09-2007 10:07 AM
the cz 85 combat DrFunkenstein Semi-Auto Handguns 2 10-11-2007 01:15 AM
Your Combat Accuracy kilogulf59 Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 5 05-26-2007 06:11 PM