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Old 02-07-2013, 01:54 AM   #21
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This thread makes me realize how lucky I am to have 28 acres to shoot at for free.Here's a pic of my buddy shooting on my little range,I can get back about 100 yards and still have the hill backstop.
I think you just made a bunch of new friends.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:27 PM   #22
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I've been looking at some level II LEO used and over run vests at bulletproofme.com

I understand these have a 5 year warranty period but this site has video of 11 year old vests stoping everything they were designed to stop... And they seem to Run about half the cost of new.

If it was your money...
Would you be concerned about a vest that was older than 5 years...
Tuckable flaps? Do these prevent the best from riding up while seated...
Side protection... Sure, it's more protection but is it so uncomfortable that you'd rather not wear it at all...

I'd imaging you've gon through several of these over the years so please enlighten me. With 3 of 4 kids "yet to raise" I'd like to make sure that any range mishaps result in cracked or broken ribs rather than a through and through from some newbs FMJ target load..
Just wondering as well if there is any other feedback on used or greater than 5 year old vests?

Thanks, KDub, for your feedback!
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:27 PM   #23
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Wait are rifle plates and stuff like that even legal for civilians to buy like me?

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:30 PM   #24
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We you allowed to return fire?

Me- I'm always prepared
Hilarious! Internet Warrior! LOL!
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:57 AM   #25
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I don't know if I'd buy a vest and wear the uncomfortable thing just for the range . Furthermore, body armor doesn't cure unsafe range practices and should not induce you to tolerate unsafe conditions .

That said, level II is popular . Level III is even heavier, hotter and more bulky but might stop a rifle bullet .
Years ago, Massad Ayoob said he'd only trust his life to Second Chance or Point Blank .

The vest covers enough to make you survive most shootings . The problem is that there is a lot of vauable stuff left uncovered and the hospital bill for a bullet wound averages over $35,000 .

If safety rules are followed, no vest is needed but if I owned one, I'd probably wear it .

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Old 03-09-2013, 10:26 PM   #26
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I don't know if I'd buy a vest and wear the uncomfortable thing just for the range . Furthermore, body armor doesn't cure unsafe range practices and should not induce you to tolerate unsafe conditions .

That said, level II is popular . Level III is even heavier, hotter and more bulky but might stop a rifle bullet .
Years ago, Massad Ayoob said he'd only trust his life to Second Chance or Point Blank .

The vest covers enough to make you survive most shootings . The problem is that there is a lot of vauable stuff left uncovered and the hospital bill for a bullet wound averages over $35,000 .

If safety rules are followed, no vest is needed but if I owned one, I'd probably wear it .
$35,000 and live to see another day, or make my wife instantly rich with an errant GSW to my center body mass? I'm not sure which she would choose.

The point is people are seeing some careless practices, likely unintentional, by new shooters. Safety officers (and counter staff) can only police poor handling so much, and it only takes one careless mistake to end it all. One poster here is a range officer that sees it more than most.

We used to not wear seat belts (if you're old enough to remember that). You can be the safest driver in the world, but it's the other idiots you need to be cautious of. Wearing an 'uncomfortable' vest, standing, for a couple hours, really never even entered my mind as a reason not to have one vs possibly saving my life.

Only wish I had the land to have my own private range to target shoot and scenario shoot. Then this wouldn't be an issue. Not being paranoid. Was just putting the question out there to everyone.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:11 PM   #27
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$35,000 and live to see another day, or make my wife instantly rich with an errant GSW to my center body mass? I'm not sure which she would choose.

The point is people are seeing some careless practices, likely unintentional, by new shooters. Safety officers (and counter staff) can only police poor handling so much, and it only takes one careless mistake to end it all. One poster here is a range officer that sees it more than most.

We used to not wear seat belts (if you're old enough to remember that). You can be the safest driver in the world, but it's the other idiots you need to be cautious of. Wearing an 'uncomfortable' vest, standing, for a couple hours, really never even entered my mind as a reason not to have one vs possibly saving my life.

Only wish I had the land to have my own private range to target shoot and scenario shoot. Then this wouldn't be an issue. Not being paranoid. Was just putting the question out there to everyone.
I wear a vest the overwhelming majority of the time and think it's a common sense precaution to avoid being shot, even if you go places where you are not permitted to carry your pistol with you. I started a thread on this very subject in the gear section of the forum. I received a nice round of criticism and "internet commando" name calling from some of the other forum members here. Mind you, none of the people criticizing my concealed carry decisions will ever pay my medical bills or take care of my children if I am shot, but they sure do like to tell me how stupid I am for having something that actually limits the injury you receive if you are shot in the chest.

The only reasons the other forum members gave was that it was heavy, hot, and "other people know you're wearing body armor". Apparently they think other people can tell they're wearing a vest, but not a gun. Buying a 2K or 3K combat rifle makes perfect sense to them, but having and wearing a vest which costs less than a quality handgun that stops everything but rifle rounds was pure crazy talk.

The neighborhood I live in is not the greatest and I received the suggestion that I move, which is quaint, except that that's not a realistic option for us right now.

Apparently the things that are common sense for police officers (who are not present during the commission of the majority of crimes against civilians) are not common sense for civilians. Thousands of Americans are murdered by handguns every year and yet only a tiny fraction of that number is peace officers. Many of the peace officers who survive maintain their quality of life afterwards because their vests prevent more traumatic internal injuries.

In accordance with current law here in Texas, you can buy body armor over the internet with no background check which means felons who have the means can acquire body armor themselves.

I always thought the reason for having training, a firearm, and body armor was to survive an encounter with an armed, violent felon not to thump your chest at your government or unarmed neighbors.

So yeah, having body armor at the gun range with all the dumb things I've seen people here do with guns is cheap life insurance and irrespective of what your wife says about the money she'd get, she'd rather have you than a fist full of dollars.

On the subject of seat belts, my wife and the HPD officer who hit her while speeding through a red light are both still alive today and WALKED away from an accident that completely demolished my new Silverado and the officer's Crown Victoria because they were both wearing their seat belts and both had airbags in their vehicles.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:54 PM   #28
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Yep. My point and thought is looking at picking up armor to wear at the range. People can laugh at it, but Google "accidental shooting gun range" and see how many recent incidences there have been. I'd say the odds of that happening are way, way, way ahead of ever having to utilize CCW or being shot during your lifetime otherwise. So armor at the range probably isn't so stupid.

I did look at your other thread and I do feel bad that you're unable to move from a place with such frequency for shootings. I guess if you live in a war zone, even in America (which I think most of us on this forum can't relate to unless you're and LEO), then you seriously consider wearing body armor in a war zone, even it it's in your home.

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Old 03-11-2013, 01:14 AM   #29
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KJG67 :
I wasn't faulting your concern for your safety. I was simply trying to warn you that vests are hot, stiff, uncomfortable and trap sweat . If you are prepared for the discomfort, fine, but I'd hate for you to buy a vest and end up deciding not to wear it once you see what it is like to wear . When I say what I would do, that is not to say what everyone else should do . If you buy a brand new vest, you can be measured and have it made to fit you . I've seen a Web Site or two with lots of information ...

If you see unsafe range practices, either leave the range or correct the miscreants . At some ranges, all members are considered range officers and are required to report all safety violations . Also :

1) Ask about hiring or appointing (or accepting a volunteer) range officer . If such an official is there some of the time, he can at least instill safe habits that may carry over when he isn't on duty .

2) Whenever a lot of people are on the range, get together with the other shooters and put one of the shooters in charge .

3) If you work in a gun shop, ask about setting up a safe backstop with a dry fire target tacked up on it. Insist that all aiming and dry snapping be done on it . This is in accordance with Rule #1 and will go a long way toward building safe shooters we'll later meet on the range .

Oh, and yes, I'm old enough to remember when cars didn't even have seat belts . I remember someone who had retrofit airplane-type lap belts from Sears installed in a 1960 foreign car .

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Old 03-16-2013, 08:58 PM   #30
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I've been looking at armor too lately. I've been looking at IIA bc I'm in FL and want to keep it concealed. I might go from a dress shirt to a polo on any given day. I've yet to try any on and heat/humidity is a big concern for me. I've heard of stuff called Dragon Skin, but don't know much about it.

I'm running in to the same prob as you guys. You gotta be real careful who you talk to it about. Most people would call you crazy. It's just about safety to me. I doubt I'll wear every day like I carry my sidearm, but it would be a nice option for high risk situations. Traveling, carrying large sums of money, selling a vehicle/property privately, etc. It would be great to have some LEOs weigh in concerning concealability and heat/humidity regarding IIA.

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