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Old 12-09-2012, 01:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Vincine View Post

I don't know how I could live if I killed my son.
I couldn't. I wouldn't even bother calling anyone unless there was a chance at saving his life. They would all think it's a murder/suicide for lack of explanation.

If I were to do something like that, and if it resulted in my son's immediate death, I would go ahead and take myself out right then and there.

It's one thing to lose your child. We have members here who are dealing with that. If you're one, and you're reading this, don't think I'm cold because I haven't offered my condolences. I haven't done so because there is nothing that can be said that can ease that. My heart does go out you, everyone who has lost a child, but there's nothing I can say that is profound enough to express my feelings, ease your pain, or lessen your burden.

But to take your own child's life, especially by accident? A stupid, idiotic mistake that never should have happened? I would refuse to live with that. That would be too much for me to handle.

I would try to soldier on if something were to happen outside of my control, but even then I don't know if I could. But never if it happens by my own hand.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:59 PM   #22
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Very well said Trip. It's hard to imagine dealing with something like that.

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Old 12-09-2012, 02:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by trip286 View Post
It's one thing to lose your child. We have members here who are dealing with that. If you're one, and you're reading this, don't think I'm cold because I haven't offered my condolences. I haven't done so because there is nothing that can be said that can ease that.
Spoken like you're a father who truly loves his child....
Let's keep in mind folks, we're not talking about the situation in Connecticut where the guy shot his son breaking into a neighbor's home while he was wearing a ski mask... or the father down in Texas (several years back) who shot his daughter when he came home & thought his house had been broken into only to have his daughter and a friend who were hiding in a closet jump out at him... This tragic outcome was caused by carelessness plain & simple... and resulted in a true innocent's death. Sympathy for this guy ???
Not from me. He's too stupid to deserve any of mine.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:08 PM   #24
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Again, I believe this is a result of lack of training.

I do not know the full story, so I am withholding judgement, but the basic firearms handling rules were broken.

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Old 12-09-2012, 08:36 PM   #25
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Again, I believe this is a result of lack of training.

I do not know the full story, so I am withholding judgement, but the basic firearms handling rules were broken.
Over here (England ) we have to have six months probabational training with an approved club before we can apply for a permit. Now I know our gun laws are extremely restrictive, but this particular process is one I do believe in. Granted this does not totally remove all risk and stupid people will do stupid things but surely there has to be some way of ensuring that all gun owners have basic safety training and validated without it becoming an infringement. That kids life should be wasted due to lack of knowledge or responsible behaviour.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:38 PM   #26
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Over here (England ) we have to have six months probabational training with an approved club before we can apply for a permit. Now I know our gun laws are extremely restrictive, but this particular process is one I do believe in. Granted this does not totally remove all risk and stupid people will do stupid things but surely there has to be some way of ensuring that all gun owners have basic safety training and validated without it becoming an infringement. That kids life should be wasted due to lack of knowledge or responsible behaviour.
Excuse typo.. kids life should Not have been wasted:eek.!
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:49 PM   #27
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Over here (England ) we have to have six months probabational training with an approved club before we can apply for a permit. Now I know our gun laws are extremely restrictive, but this
That's wrong. In the UK you can get a firearm without being in a club or having any training. If you chose to join a club and you want to have a firearm for target shooting only then you have to do (one year probation) before the club will back your application. You will be able to use the clubs firearms them training you or not training you has no bearing on whether you will get a firearms certificate or not.



Firearm certificates

You must supply the names of two referees, who must be resident in the UK, not members of your immediate family, who are of good character and who have known you for at least two years.
(There is no legal requirement to pass any test or undertake any training prior to the grant of a firearm certificate.)
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:00 PM   #28
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That's wrong. In the UK you can get a firearm without being in a club or having any training. If you chose to join a club and you want to have a firearm for target shooting only then you have to do (one year probation) before the club will back your application. You will be able to use the clubs firearms them training you or not training you has no bearing on whether you will get a firearms certificate or not.

Firearm certificates

You must supply the names of two referees, who must be resident in the UK, not members of your immediate family, who are of good character and who have known you for at least two years.
(There is no legal requirement to pass any test or undertake any training prior to the grant of a firearm certificate.)
Factually most of what you have said Is correct , however I think your missing the point. Club membership probation is only 6 months during that time everyone at that club including the club secretary is taking a good look at you over this period including training on Safety. You also have to get your NRA certification signed by the chairman for each type of firearm you own stating that you are safe and competent. this has to be done annually. There have been instances during a probationary period where it became very obvious in a persons unsuitability for using or possessing firearms. A word from the secetary and that guy is out, this is then fed back to potential issuing authorities. some times back ground checks are not enough since you can be a model citizen right up until you blow away kids at a school!
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Factually most of what you have said Is correct , however I think your missing the point.
The point is that there is no legal requirement form the police or government for firearms training to obtain any firearm. If individual clubs won't support a application without training that's there policy but there is no legal requirement for them to do so.

As for firearms for hunting there is no training required to own a firearm.

It could be different in England but in this part of the UK the probationary period is one year.
The PSNI will expect an applicant for an FAC for target shooting to have completed the required 12-month probationary period at a club.


So to sum it up there is no legal requirement in the UK for any firearms training to obtain a firearm. I got backing for a 9MM pistol without even shooting one at the club and no training.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:28 PM   #30
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The point is that there is no legal requirement form the police or government for firearms training to obtain any firearm. If individual clubs won't support a application without training that's there policy but there is no legal requirement for them to do so.

As for firearms for hunting there is no training required to own a firearm.

It could be different in England but in this part of the UK the probationary period is one year.
The PSNI will expect an applicant for an FAC for target shooting to have completed the required 12-month probationary period at a club.

So to sum it up there is no legal requirement in the UK for any firearms training to obtain a firearm. I got backing for a 9MM pistol without even shooting one at the club and no training.
Not legal no. But the process of probation in clubs I think is a good one because you get to know an individuals character before He's unleashed onto the world with a firearm. It gives them the opportunity to learn how to be safe around others and have good gun discipline. As I originally stated there are exceptions to obtaining ownership but in England most people have to be affiliate with a club. I was merely using this as an example of a way training and responsible ownership can be given /learnt..there may well be a better way. I would never suggest legislating due to the individual, we've lost too much ownership rights in this country already though this. You will always have a nutjob who slips through the net. But if there is a way of ensuring all gun owners get some basic safety training it would reduce many tragic incidents such as this. We can't rely on people reading a manual, and why should anyone else be put at risk just because a guy is a dumb ass?
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