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AsmelEduardo 03-09-2009 03:56 AM

Anger Control
In Venezuela by law, you have aprove a psicological examination to obtain your CCW permit, if you use your firearm at least two conditions that must have present and should be demonstrated in a court of law to be absolved... 1st. your life must be on risk and 2nd. you could not avoid the use of lethal force.
I was talking to friend who carry and we was talking about what to do about anger control... you in U.S don't need that kind of examination.... how do you handle a man with anger control problem? I know that most on this forum are responsible law abiding gun owners, but what to do when you face a ...lets say... a road rage madman or a drunk? He is trying to start a fight, we are armed... what to do when we face an anger control problem?

c3shooter 03-10-2009 02:20 AM

Well, can only speak for self. Am retired military, and retired law enforcement officer. And yes, I do carry a sidearm. My PERSONAL view is that as an armed person, I have a responsibility to act with a bit more forgiveness to someone that is a jerk. Since I am aware that we are not on a level playing field, and I have an advantage over him. If I were not armed, I might feel a bit more free to tell someone that they are a jerk. But when armed, I should not be (borderline, perhaps) provoking the other person into a fight. As one of my favorite writers once wrote- "I let them live."

Words do not cause scars. If the person's PHYSICAL actions cross the line, that is a different matter. In the meantime, I am still free to THINK whatever I like about his mother.....:rolleyes:

AsmelEduardo 03-10-2009 06:08 AM

I was talking about that... when you don't choose to start the fight... when is the other who want to fight no matter what... it's easy (and logical) just turn around and choose other path, but when he decides to fight anyway the road rage madmen...
In here you can't point to someone for a fistfight, it's misuse, if you draw is to use your gun.... not for intimidate the opponent; otherwise is illegal point a weapon to an unarmed person, because you could "avoid" the confrontation...
Sorry for my bad english, just I don't know how to express my concern about face a situation like that being armed....

c3shooter 03-10-2009 12:54 PM

Do not apologize for your English- it is MUCH better than my Spanish!

The laws vary here to some extent, based on which state you are in- but in general, you may not use deadly force except to avoid death or fear of serious injury. But at the same time, you are not required to be a victim of an assualt. The key is- did the other person place you in REASONABLE fear of harm?

Now, I have a few years on me now- let's say I pull into a parking space- and a man 30 years younger, 3 inches taller, and 25 lbs heavier angrily runs up to me, announcing his intention to "teach me a lesson" with the baseball bat in his hand for "stealing" his parking place....... Sorry- he is probably going to "meet my little friend". But not all such matters are that clear cut.

A lawful response is going to depend on ALL of the circumstances- where we are, time of day, did I come to this confrontation with clean hands, or did I intentionally provoke him, etc. Here there is a criminal charge called "brandishing a firearm"- pointing a firearm at someone- except when you are acting in defense of self or others.

Bottom line- if you use force, EVEN WHEN IT IS LATER SHOWN TO BE JUSTIFIED, your life will be filled with lawyers. It is never a simple matter.

SGT-MILLER 03-11-2009 12:00 AM

When you are carrying a firearm, you have a responsibility to be the humble, meek person in the background.

If someone is spouting off an attitude, you just state you are sorry, and move on to other things. You must never call the person names or spout off with threats. If the encounter turns lethal, the witnesses may state that you were yelling at the other person and that will put you right where the lawyers want you.

Angrypoonani 03-11-2009 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by c3shooter (Post 80292)
"...your life will be filled with lawyers."

That's awesome! :D

Bighead 03-12-2009 08:14 AM

Road Rage
Sgt Miller has the right idea. You never want the give the impression of being the instigator. Let us consider on example I recently discussed with some friends, a road rage incident. First, simply slow down and allow the person to pass. Make a turn and see if they will continue on in another direction. If they are still engaging you, then it is probably time to call 9-1-1 if you have a cellphone.

At this point, you want to still be working towards preventing the incident from escalating. I encourage my friends to know the location of police breifing stations, and unless directed in another direction by the 9-1-1 operator I would be heading towards one at this point. Many times in my area the police breifing stations around the city are not manned during evening & overnight hours (callbox outside rings 9-1-1), so you may still be forced to defend yourself if your assailant follows you into the police station parking lot (like Olidia Kerr-Day, who was murdered by an ex-boyfriend in the parking lot of a police station, while on the phone with 9-1-1).

So how do you look after this scenario plays out. You were involved in some altercation while driving that you tried to end by removing yourself from the area. The other party pursued you, so you called the police and sought a location of apparent safety. Even after retreating to a police station the person still attacked you and had no choice but to defend yourself. Your entire stance was de-escalation right up until you are required to defend yourself.

Bighead 03-12-2009 08:25 AM

When deadly force isn't an option.
Our best weapons are our brains and our mouths. My hope in my private life is to avoid or de-escalate a confrontation. I am going to try and walk or talk my way out of the fight. If I can't disengage the person, or I'm confronted with a blitz attack, that is when your physical skills are going to come into play.

We must also consider that not all violent confrontations are deadly force scenarios. The situation may deteriorate where you cannot retreat, while also not having the ability to respond with a firearm. This is why training in open-hand techniques is appropriate, whether it be boxing, martial arts, or keeping your high school wrestling techniques fresh, etc. If you carry a gun it should be because you understand that you might have to use it to defend yourself. You train open-hand techniques for the same reason.

When some drunk follows you into the bathroom at a business because of some perceived slight, and shoves you into a stall and starts attacking you, you will be hard pressed to justify shooting him without some extenuating circumstance. I'm not old and infirm, and I don't want to take the kind of beating that puts me "in fear for my life", so I want to be ready to fight back with a more appropriate level of force.

dragunovsks 03-13-2009 04:42 AM

I agree with C3, just because we have gun permits doesn't mean we have the right to pop a cap in someone's azz just because he looked at us wrong or he bumped into us in the grocery line. I also agree with the 2 rules set forth by your countries leaders. You should not use your firearm unless you can not avoid the situation and your life is in danger. There are a lot of people who should not have a gun permit because they would be the type of people who would shoot you for giving you the wrong change.

ladyM 03-25-2009 07:32 AM

.....I've found a really good quote in one of my old psych. books :
"Anger management" is one of the silliest terms in behavior science and the subject of widespread ridicule in the media. Anger doesn't need to be managed; ego vulnerability and over estimations of threat, which cause anger problems, need to be reduced.
Words can easily make anger problems worse. Confusion over terms like "appropriate" or "justified" anger is a large part of why the major approaches to problem anger have persistently ignored the real cause and, instead, have targeted anger for treatment, as if it caused itself.~Ezine Publishing

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