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Old 01-01-2009, 02:25 PM   #21
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Train like you fight.

Everybody responds to things differently. Some people can handle life or death situations betters than others. Some people would be able to handle themselves calmly in a firefight, others will freak out and spray steel everywhere. This doesn't have anything to do with how "tough" you are. This has to deal with your genetic makeup. It is now scientific fact that some people are just naturally more "numb" to combat situations then others. That is the basis of how PTSD is now treated among service members.

Not one person will know how they will react if the time comes. The only thing you can do is train, train, train, train. Another key is training to what is comfortable to YOU. If you cannot shoot with two hands for some reason, train to shoot with one hand. If you cannot fire a pistol with one particular shooting stance because of some LIMFAC, train using another stance.

Research out there and use what works for you, and train hard. Not everybody will fit into the "cookie-cutter" approach.

The more you train, the more muscle memory you will develop, the better you will preform in a gunfight. Muscle memory DOES help in a combat situation. If you do not agree with that, you are basically saying that one of the basic principles of any martial art is hogwash.

Martial artists will practice a move or set of moves so much that it becomes muscle memory. They will be able to execute that move with little thought even during high stress situations. To disagree with this is to disagree with all the martial arts masters out there that practice this rule.

Gunfighting is no different. If you practice with your firearm to the point that handling it is almost second nature, you will be on the right track to effectively using that firearm in a defensive situation.

Talk to the Marines/Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen out there that have been in more firefights then most law enforcement agencies combined, and they will tell you that muscle memory is one of the most important aspects of training.

How many times have you heard the phrase "....and then the training took over."

On that note the training has to be real and relevant. Hence what I said in the beginning of this post. Train like you fight. Train to shoot on the move, shooting multiple targets, shooting targets behind cover, while injured, etc, etc, etc.......

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Old 01-02-2009, 06:58 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by SGT-MILLER View Post
Train like you fight.

Everybody responds to things differently. Some people can handle life or death situations betters than others. Some people would be able to handle themselves calmly in a firefight, others will freak out and spray steel everywhere. This doesn't have anything to do with how "tough" you are. This has to deal with your genetic makeup. It is now scientific fact that some people are just naturally more "numb" to combat situations then others. That is the basis of how PTSD is now treated among service members.

Not one person will know how they will react if the time comes. The only thing you can do is train, train, train, train. Another key is training to what is comfortable to YOU. If you cannot shoot with two hands for some reason, train to shoot with one hand. If you cannot fire a pistol with one particular shooting stance because of some LIMFAC, train using another stance.

Research out there and use what works for you, and train hard. Not everybody will fit into the "cookie-cutter" approach.

The more you train, the more muscle memory you will develop, the better you will preform in a gunfight. Muscle memory DOES help in a combat situation. If you do not agree with that, you are basically saying that one of the basic principles of any martial art is hogwash.

Martial artists will practice a move or set of moves so much that it becomes muscle memory. They will be able to execute that move with little thought even during high stress situations. To disagree with this is to disagree with all the martial arts masters out there that practice this rule.

Gunfighting is no different. If you practice with your firearm to the point that handling it is almost second nature, you will be on the right track to effectively using that firearm in a defensive situation.

Talk to the Marines/Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen out there that have been in more firefights then most law enforcement agencies combined, and they will tell you that muscle memory is one of the most important aspects of training.

How many times have you heard the phrase "....and then the training took over."

On that note the training has to be real and relevant. Hence what I said in the beginning of this post. Train like you fight. Train to shoot on the move, shooting multiple targets, shooting targets behind cover, while injured, etc, etc, etc.......
I've experienced first hand that muscle memory comes from training and if enough training is done, muscle memory becomes second nature and allows you to do things without the conscious thought of step one, step two, step three...

When I was in the Army, I had a parachute cigarette roll on me on a jump one night. I felt a weak opening shock after exiting the aircraft and counting to 4. I grabbed my risers and inspected my canopy and suspension lines. Upon inspection of my parachute, I saw that it exhibited what paratroopers call a "zero lift" condition.

Immediately upon discovering this, my brain clicked. I, without thought, snapped into the proper position to deploy my reserve and pulled the reserve deployment handle. The reserve deployed and I cleared the suspension lines from the reserve pack tray. Upon successful deployment of my reserve, I continued the actions that were required prior to impact with the ground.

When I hit the ground and my brain clicked back over to conscious though, my knees almost buckled. It was the first time that I had avoided my own mortality without having to think my way through it.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:00 PM   #23
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Yeah, people think thats possible until the adrenaline dump of a two way range. Then your eyes will be peeled wide open in "fight or flight' mode. But lets just ignore the adrenaline research of recognized combat researchers like Lt.Col Dave Grossman and rely on range tricks.

http://www.policelink.com/training/articles/31654-one-eye-or-two-eyes-

The pertinate part being:



This very subject was a quite a long topic over at lightfighter and the consensus from the people who shoot people daily is that you'll end up both eyes open anyhow and you might as well practice for it and maintain your situational awareness while you're at it.

But practice on the range and maybe 'muscle memory' will overcome thousands of years of evolutionary adrenaline response... Shooting moving targets that are shooting back takes a bit more awareness than "acquiring sight picture" on a motionless piece of paper.
You have any combat experience, or just some time on a range?
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:59 AM   #24
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You have any combat experience, or just some time on a range?
As a soldier, no. Survived 2 deadly force encounters, yes (knife once, beaten with a brick once).
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:34 AM   #25
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For those unsure which eye is dominant- with both eyes open, look at an object 20 ft away. Keeping both eyes open, raise your extended arm, with your thumb up (like hitchhiking). Position your thumb so it blocks the item you are looking at. Without moving your hand, close one eye. Open it, close the other. The eye that when open does NOT move the object side to side is your dominant eye.

Most folks have troubles trying to focus on rear sight, front sight, target- they are at 3 different focal lengths. Try focusing on rear, THEN front, THEN target. Target will be sharp, front a bit fuzzy, rear real fuzzy.

If your double vision problem is TOO distracting, get an inexpensive pair of shooting glasses (yellow lens safety glasses, Home Depot) and cover the non-dominant lens with tape or carboard.

But DO try to focus on the target, both eyes. Of course, scopes are a different matter.

Think Doc Holiday had a different solution in Tombstone, tho.....
I have the same double-vision problem and am a new shooter looking for recommendations. When I focus on the target, I see one target and two pistols. When I focus on the front, I see two targets, one front and two rear sights (the rear sights are closer together than the target images but separated enough to be unusable).

The other problem I have is that I have never been able to close one eye at a time, I can kind of close my left eye and am unable to focus with my right. I am not able to close just my right eye at all. I assume with lots of practice I could figure this out.

My current solution is to wear a pair of safety glasses that fit over my prescription glasses. I put a small piece of scotch tape on the left lens to blur my left eye vision enough to only focus using the right eye. I then see a clear (well, clear enough) image of only one set of sights and target and can still easily see with both eyes when not shooting by simply moving my head up a little bit. I've heard of other people who wear an eye-patch but the caveat there is you lose way more sight than required.

The larger problem is the double vision affects my performance in not only handgun shooting but also with rifles (I clearly see the side-view of the rifle instead of down the barrel) and with sports such as billiards where you need to focus on multiple items at once. I assume I should bring it up with the ophthalmologist at my next visit...
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:02 AM   #26
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@ jrresch,

I am happy not to be the only one.

I do the same thing, by taking an aold pair of presrciption glasses and cover my non dominant eye (also my left eye) whith some tape.
That way you can leave both eyes open, but just aim using one eye.

I think, what I have read out of the different answers in this tr´hread I opend, is, that you have to make up your own mind, how you want to do it and how you feel most comfortable.

What also got me to think this is a documentation I saw on tv and recorded, about special forces military in extreme situations.
It was a former Navy Seal and a Isreali special frces veteran from the Cheyetet (don`t know, if I wrote that right).
I wasn`t able to see how the Seal did it, but the isreali squinted his left eye and just aimed using his right eye.

If you are not able to squint one eye closed and aim through the other, that I would suggest you do what are doing now using the scotch tape and pratice aiming at home using snap caps and both eyes.

Ken

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Old 01-10-2009, 04:18 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
For those unsure which eye is dominant- with both eyes open, look at an object 20 ft away. Keeping both eyes open, raise your extended arm, with your thumb up (like hitchhiking). Position your thumb so it blocks the item you are looking at. Without moving your hand, close one eye. Open it, close the other. The eye that when open does NOT move the object side to side is your dominant eye.
Interesting. I've always shot with my right eye closed. Based on the above information, my right eye is the dominant one. I've tried shooting with my right eye, but it doesnt feel right. I've never tried shooting both eyes open, but even just doing the exercise above, I had double vision. I'll give it a try at the range next time.
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