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Old 09-19-2011, 01:01 AM   #11
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JonM is spot on with his post. The adrenaline you get from working out and the adrenaline you get from fight-or-flight are very, very different.

I have actually been searching for ways to bring this sense of realism to unarmed self defense training. I would think that getting a duplicate of her weapon that only fires blanks and then intentionally scaring the life out of her will instill that mentality.

The good thing is that the human brain learns things extremely quickly. Once you have that fear response in place, it will stay. But, I've only ever tested it with my students in unarmed.

The Mind is like a Parachute. It only works when it's open.
this just doesn't sound too safe to me.


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Old 09-19-2011, 03:48 AM   #12
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Yeah, I am trying to figure a way to get the realism without the danger. I don't know exactly about doing it from a dead sleep, LOL. I can see that leading to heart problems.

But, what i did was catch my students by surprise (we are all friends and hang out together as well) and jump out and see how they reacted. Then critiqued as necessary. But, what I noticed was that in that case, what we worked on stuck fairly well.

Mostly, they focused on situational awareness and rounding blind corners or dark areas. It was also a barrel of laughs afterwards. "Hey, did you guys see his face?!" "Umm...did you just yelp?"

If there were a way to replace their firearm with one that is identical but completely safe and have other friends from the training group act in the bad guy role.

But, beware the liability issues. Make sure that you only do it with people that you trust completely and trust you completely. Some people do not take kindly to getting the hell scared out of them.

What I did was tell my guys what I was going to do and asked them if they wanted to participate. I just wouldn't bother those that wouldn't want to. But, everyone thought it would be a good idea.

Again, let me state, this is in unarmed self defense training. The end result was that it got to the point that I hard to try really, really hard to catch them by surprise and an attack when I would catch them would land on a well implemented defense.



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Old 09-19-2011, 04:20 AM   #13
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A safer alternative, similar to what Perpetual Student is proposing, is going through a simunitions course, or even getting into airsoft. (Don't fault me here, if You disagree, I accept that but don't harp on me) my airsoft 1911 ran off of basically propane, used a similar sized mag, and had the same bushing, guide rod/spring barrel etc setup, although much of it was polymer. It's far from perfect, but my airsoft guns sent the bb downrange at 1/3rd to 1/2 the speed of a 230grn 45acp. I was able to learn at a younger age how to clear rooms and such, and when I played I did fairly well. I even used "standard cap" mags. It's a useful tool in force on force movement and communication. I and even transitions, reloading, etc.

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Old 09-19-2011, 04:31 AM   #14
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Those are all great ideas!!

But, the minute you know it's not real, you will respond in like-kind. Perhaps not intentionally, but the result is the same. It was the surprise factor that I found to be an important though often missing element in programs.

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Old 09-19-2011, 04:33 AM   #15
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As a training tool, I see how simunitions and airsoft can be extremely helpful. But, like everything, there are pros and cons.

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Old 09-19-2011, 04:52 AM   #16
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Exactly. I loved airsoft because I got some good experience... but there were a lot of bad players... that and I still have pockmarks from popping them out of my skin:P

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Old 09-19-2011, 05:58 AM   #17
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LoL. I read on another post where someone didn't agree with such training because they may often lead to bad habits. Using insufficient cover, being braver than you should be, etc...

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Old 09-19-2011, 06:44 AM   #18
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LoL. I read on another post where someone didn't agree with such training because they may often lead to bad habits. Using insufficient cover, being braver than you should be, etc...
that's a good point. Where I was at , even with airsoft, we had "concealment" unless we were behind a damn tree.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:20 AM   #19
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Glockstar, there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of the training tips given here, but the exercise before firing, as I always understood it, was for the purpose of raising your heart rate and destroying your fine motor skills so that you were using only your gross motor skills the same as when under stress. You can also carry a 30-70 lb pack and drop it right before firing just to throw off your balance and give you a light-headed feeling, or stand on a square piece of plywood centered on a smooth log laid on its side or hard wooden ball while shooting - another couple of ways to challenge yourself. I personally like slipping Snap Caps into magazines to simulate misfires/hangfires for shooting partners without their knowledge.

However, true adrenaline release only comes from either inducing it through a drug injection, or actual fear. The reason most people experience "true" fear is because they experience something they are not ready for or did not perceive as a threat when first spotted. This is the purpose of the "Cooper Color Codes" as originally developed by Jeff Cooper. It is dealt with a little bit better in this article on "State of Awareness" here. As a person learns to constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY, evaluate their surroundings and everyone in them, the chance of getting surprised by someone and attacked, thereby releasing large amounts of adrenaline, decrease significantly. Although there may still be an attack, a person who is mostly or even partially aware of it will seriously stem the release of adrenaline and control the flow of the attack and therefore their response. This is the same result as their control of tachypsychia and auditory exclusion.

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Old 09-19-2011, 07:28 AM   #20
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LoL. I read on another post where someone didn't agree with such training because they may often lead to bad habits. Using insufficient cover, being braver than you should be, etc...
This depends on if the players take it as a kiddie shoot-'em-up game or as a training simulator. If you can get hit ten times and still use all of your limbs to fight back, it's a game and not worth a d__n thing for training. If you can be taken at your word for the times you get hit, and a head or body hit takes you out of the game, a limb hit disables the limb, and everyone properly uses cover and concealment and saves the "Suicide Runs" for their video games, then much can be learned from training with these look-alike, use-alike guns!

Habits are what you make them. This is a cheap way to either make bad ones into good ones, good ones into great ones, or mess everything up.


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