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-   -   Accidental Discharge (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f55/accidental-discharge-4404/)

Michael P. 05-10-2008 02:07 AM

Accidental Discharge
 
I was exposed to an accidental discharge today. I didn't know this guy very well, but he had a concealed carry license and wanted to "show me his gun", because he knew that I was into firearms. I guess this guy like to carry the weapon with th magazine in and the chamber empty. He gave me the gun properly, with the slide locked back and magazine out. I looked at it and gave it back. He then inserted the magazine, sent the slide forward, pointed the gun at the pavement(we were in the middle of town) and then he pulled the trigger. BOOM! The gun went off. It wasn't expecting him to pull the trigger and he wasn't expecting a round to be in the chamber.

Nobody got hurt, thankfully. I also had some Quick Clot in my van near by. The guy had been handling firearms and hunting his whole life and had never had an AD. Needless to say he was up set and ashamed. I took the gun and unloaded it. No more drama.

I guess he wanted to pull the trigger so that there was no tension on the trigger. He said that normally the slide was forward when he inserted the mag. (to his credit, I doubt he had been trained properly and he did have the gun pointed in a "relatively safe direction.")

I know another person, a female, who used to be in law enforcement, or maybe still is I don't know. She went to unload her gun by, racking the slide, taking the mag out, then pulling the trigger. Bang! The bullet went through her floor, into the apartment under hers. No body was hurt.

I was never taught to pull the trigger, until on target and ready to fire. Not in the Police Academy, SWAT training, or Firearms instructor school. I don't want to say that this is wrong, but I don't know who is teaching this, and it is obviously causing AD'S. It almost got me shot today! Let me know what you thing and what you do to prevent this.

Dillinger 05-10-2008 02:31 AM

I would say you are a lucky SOB and that your friend PROBABLY will never forget today.

AD's are very scary, and while I have never had the same instance that you had, I once had a member of the local police have an AD and skip a round off the wall in the indoor range we were shooting at. His training partner blew it off and tried to smooth it over with the range commander, but it was quite an event.

I would say buy yourself a Lotto ticket, kiss your kid(s) and take your wife to bed early tonight - you definitely "dodged the bullet" today.

Glad no one was hurt.

JD

Michael P. 05-10-2008 03:15 AM

The crazy thing was, my wife was standing right next to me.

I have also been on a Police firing range when an AD happened. The woman two shooters down from me was looking me right at me when she accidentally pulled the trigger on her 870 shotgun. The gun went off and the bullet struck about two yards in front of her. This was before I was a range officer. She told the range officer that she did it on purpose. They took her off the range but that was it. That one scared me for some reason. No excuse for that one.

hillbilly68 05-10-2008 09:39 AM

Glad that everything worked out OK. We have purposely removed the "AD" as it is a misnomer in most cases, such as this. "Negligent Discharge" is the going rate now, and it does make sense. I would say the the only "AD"s are mechanical (eg slam fire) but most are "NDs" because it is of the negligence of the person holding the weapon. Just an aside.
Again, glad no one was hurt.

Michael P. 05-10-2008 08:32 PM

Good point on the AD/ND terms. Words are important.

poolshark13 05-11-2008 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillbilly68 (Post 23665)
Glad that everything worked out OK. We have purposely removed the "AD" as it is a misnomer in most cases, such as this. "Negligent Discharge" is the going rate now, and it does make sense. I would say the the only "AD"s are mechanical (eg slam fire) but most are "NDs" because it is of the negligence of the person holding the weapon. Just an aside.
Again, glad no one was hurt.

i was going to say the same thing about negligent discharge, but you beat me to it. ;)

hydrashok 05-11-2008 08:55 AM

Wow. I'm glad you made it out of that situation safely with no one hurt.

I teach the "negligent discharge" terminology, whether it be to military, law enforcement, or civilians. Accidental discharges are very rare, but it should result in no one being hit because we keep our weapons pointed in a safe direction. Even if you had the purest of AD's (ie "slam fires"), the gun wouldn't be pointed at someone when it would have occured.

As far as your original question:
Quote:

I was never taught to pull the trigger, until on target and ready to fire. Not in the Police Academy, SWAT training, or Firearms instructor school. I don't want to say that this is wrong, but I don't know who is teaching this, and it is obviously causing AD'S.
Unfortunately, the military is... and I adamantly disagree with it, along with the whole "unloaded weapon" philosophy. Here's why:

The military is real big on "clearing barrels", which is a barrel full of sand. When a soldier/sailor/airman/marine (from here on out referred to as "soldier") enters a building (even in Iraq "inside the wire"), the soldier is supposed to check/clear the weapon, then "verify" the weapon is cleared by placing the muzzle into a small opening on top of the barrel, and...

...PULL THE TRIGGER!

When the hammer falls, it SHOULD only go "click", but if it does go "BANG!", then the soldier faces punishement for the ND, but it ensured no one got hurt.

My big disagreement with the clearing barrels are the fact that the military is promoting complacency by making soldiers carry around unloaded weapons. If all weapons were loaded at all times, the soldiers would have more respect for them, and that would cut out a LOT of horse-play I have seen, and my friend SSG Berry would still be with us today.

In October 2005, I had been out on patrol all night, and was sleeping in my tent. At a little after 7am, I was awakened by a loud "BANG!" In the tent next to mine, another NCO asked SSG Berry if his "weapon was loaded" because he saw a magazine in his 9mm Beretta. SSG Berry pulled the 9mm and pointed the muzzle under his chin and said, "if it would loaded, would I do this?" The next thing SSG Berry did was DIED.

A loaded weapon kept in a holster doesn't accidently go "BANG!" When I'm in a classroom, I feel more comfortable knowing every single holstered weapon is loaded as opposed to "guessing" if every weapon is cleared. I can't change the military's way of thinking, but in *MY* classroom, all holstered weapons MUST be loaded, and we train with "blue guns". There's no question or doubt that way.

Wow, I was on quite a soapbox with this post... sorry about that.

mrwatch 05-11-2008 07:53 PM

loaded?
 
It was said that a loaded weapon in a holster doesn't go bang. About 20 years ago an officer in my county had his weapon discharge going thru the back of his leg. He sued the manufacture and won. I don't know the details of it. Retired early. I bought my son a used 22 semi auto from a gun shop for the club range. When he pressed the release and closed the slide it went off one time. We tried it again and same thing. The others started down range for their targets and I called hold it, defective gun on line. They looked at me like we were bothering them and went on. Took it back to the dealer and he found a broken srping and would not warrenty it. He probably traded it in that way and never test fired it. I never dealt there again. Another time I went to a police invitational pistol shoot. A lady next to me had the barrel pointed down on the line table and the hammer was half way back. It went off into the table. I questioned later why nothing was said to her? Ohh well things happen!
Since the millitary was brought up, we all should remember the bombing of the USS Cole. Boat pulled up along side and blew up like a car bomb killing many. At least one news media reported the men on guard duty were not allowed to have loaded wepons. True? Why? I hope they changed that rule.

matt g 06-03-2008 04:03 PM

There is no such thing as an accidental discharge, there is such thing as an unsafe fool though. Trigger and muzzle discipline are the only two safeties that every firearm posses. Learn to use them.

h&k bigdaddydieseldan 06-03-2008 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 23648)
I would say you are a lucky SOB and that your friend PROBABLY will never forget today.

AD's are very scary, and while I have never had the same instance that you had, I once had a member of the local police have an AD and skip a round off the wall in the indoor range we were shooting at. His training partner blew it off and tried to smooth it over with the range commander, but it was quite an event.

I would say buy yourself a Lotto ticket, kiss your kid(s) and take your wife to bed early tonight - you definitely "dodged the bullet" today.

Glad no one was hurt.

JD

I agree with Dillinger 100% you were one lucky sob :eek::eek:


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