Winchester '94 Project - Page 4
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by LIBERTY2 View Post
I have a model 39Marlin that I just restored. When I started on it I was just going to knock off some of the big chunks of rust and paint it. But as I started cleaning and sanding it I realized that it could be restored. The rifling was pristine. With careful sanding and polishing it came around to a high polished beauty. I used Brownells Oxfo blue on it and am very happy I did. Looks good as new and I can highly recommend it to blue other guns. I am now working on a 94 that looks about as bad as this one barrel is straight and the rifling is good though. If the 94 works out I'll have to get some more junkers to restore to their previous glory!!!
How about you share some photos? Sounds like a great project
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:26 PM   #32
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Hey TOM, did you put this on the back burner, or are you going to make us wait until you have the finished product?

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Old 02-16-2014, 04:55 PM   #33
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I'm curious. Did you ever consider that this had been in a fire? that would account for the overall rust and the bent barrel. If so would not a fire ruin the temper of the receiver as well as any parts that were heat treated.

I'm a Winchester collector and most collectors I know would assume this was a house fire etc. gun.
This is a good point and something that should be considered. Perhaps he could have the receiver color case hardened.... that would correct any heat treatment issues and provide a nice new finish.

I recently picked up a 1951 vintage model 94 30-30. As a result I started looking into the history of the guns and the changes made in 1964, I found some interesting stuff. I put it on my blog if anyone is interested.

http://tincanbandit.blogspot.com/2014/02/winchester-model-94-rifles.html

BTW, OP how about an update??
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:32 AM   #34
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Sorry for not updating any sooner than now.. Many irons in the fire. The '94 project is still on-going so plz be patient. Gh0zt36, I will be using only pre-64 parts on this rifle. I wanted to make sure everyone knows that. That's the main reason I was so stoked about the catalogs that I ordered. Awahlster, No sir, this was not the result of a fire just simply bad storage. Drboompa, I'm pretty sure I put the info in this thread about who I bought the three volume set of catalogs from. It's likely they no longer sell them though. Check for "Jack First Inc." on the internet. Liberty2, I'm a big fan of Brownells products especially their Oxpho Blue liquid. I've been using cold blues for several years and swear by them. Proper prep work is the key and in the case of Oxpho blue, (also other cold blues) heating the metal prior to re-blue seems to give a deeper, darker finish. I finish up with a 24 hour oil cure which has also proven to deepen the finish color. Bill I know there are many folks who stand by the old tried and true methods i.e. slow rust bluing, etc. but I can produce examples of cold blue projects that I did many years ago that you might find a little hard to distinguish.. Ok guys,that's all I have for now (sorry). My son leaves for Navy Boot Camp this coming Monday and our daughter will be graduating college soon and moving to Wichita Kansas with her husband who will be getting out of AF tech school later this month. Once the dust settles, I should be able to get back to the '94. I have work that trickles in from outside clients (just completed restoring a Remington Model-11) but I'm very anxious to get this '94 completed like every time I open the cabinet that it's stored in =).

Thanks for sticking with me on this. I promise you will not be disappointed by the results..

By the way.. My original post about the folks with the catalogs was wrong it is: Jack "First" Inc. not Jack "Frost" Inc. Sorry for the confusion.

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Old 03-07-2014, 07:46 PM   #35
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"Everybody" has discovered the "secrets" to making cold blue look and last like real bluing.
They say "proper prep, heat the metal, soak in oil, etc."
Guess what? You still have applied a layer of copper sulphate, not bluing. It still wears off, offers no rust protection, stinks, and usually looks terrible.
Of course, it's your gun and you can do what you want with it.
But, expending all the time and energy sanding and polishing all that metal and then using a very inferior finish seems counterproductive. I see people deluding themselves about cold blue all the time. You could spend 2-3 more hours on the gun and do it right.
Did you ever replace or straighten the barrel?

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Old 03-08-2014, 07:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by TheOldMan View Post
Sorry for not updating any sooner than now.. Many irons in the fire. The '94 project is still on-going so plz be patient. Gh0zt36, I will be using only pre-64 parts on this rifle. I wanted to make sure everyone knows that. That's the main reason I was so stoked about the catalogs that I ordered. Awahlster, No sir, this was not the result of a fire just simply bad storage. Drboompa, I'm pretty sure I put the info in this thread about who I bought the three volume set of catalogs from. It's likely they no longer sell them though. Check for "Jack First Inc." on the internet. Liberty2, I'm a big fan of Brownells products especially their Oxpho Blue liquid. I've been using cold blues for several years and swear by them. Proper prep work is the key and in the case of Oxpho blue, (also other cold blues) heating the metal prior to re-blue seems to give a deeper, darker finish. I finish up with a 24 hour oil cure which has also proven to deepen the finish color. Bill I know there are many folks who stand by the old tried and true methods i.e. slow rust bluing, etc. but I can produce examples of cold blue projects that I did many years ago that you might find a little hard to distinguish.. Ok guys,that's all I have for now (sorry). My son leaves for Navy Boot Camp this coming Monday and our daughter will be graduating college soon and moving to Wichita Kansas with her husband who will be getting out of AF tech school later this month. Once the dust settles, I should be able to get back to the '94. I have work that trickles in from outside clients (just completed restoring a Remington Model-11) but I'm very anxious to get this '94 completed like every time I open the cabinet that it's stored in =).

Thanks for sticking with me on this. I promise you will not be disappointed by the results..

By the way.. My original post about the folks with the catalogs was wrong it is: Jack "First" Inc. not Jack "Frost" Inc. Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks for the update sir. Can't wait for another set of pictures on your progress. But it sounds like you have a full plate

cheers
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDeShivs View Post
"Everybody" has discovered the "secrets" to making cold blue look and last like real bluing.
They say "proper prep, heat the metal, soak in oil, etc."
Guess what? You still have applied a layer of copper sulphate, not bluing. It still wears off, offers no rust protection, stinks, and usually looks terrible.
Of course, it's your gun and you can do what you want with it.
But, expending all the time and energy sanding and polishing all that metal and then using a very inferior finish seems counterproductive. I see people deluding themselves about cold blue all the time. You could spend 2-3 more hours on the gun and do it right.
Did you ever replace or straighten the barrel?
To answer your last part first: The barrel is now straight. It was not as bad as I thought early on.

Commenting on the first part: It would be nice if I had access to or could perform hot bluing myself but since I don't have the cash for a proper hot blue setup, I will continue to cold blue when I can and rust blue as my primary. I've seen videos on DIY hot blue setups for handguns and may try that in the future. I do not have anyone nearby that does hot bluing.

As i mentioned before, I have several firearms in my collection that I cold blued years ago and the finish does not stink nor has it worn off. Remember that all gun finishes are chemical in nature, rust in it's basic form is iron oxide and the very basic protective coating that forms when bare steel and iron are exposed to moisture.

I will be updating photo's very soon. All of my other projects have been completed and I now have the time to devote to the '94.
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:51 PM   #38
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Cold bluing is not rust. It's usually a coating of copper sulphate or selenium. Rust bluing is easily done at home, and it is more durable than hot tank bluing.
I'm pretty familiar with firearms finishes. I do things with metal that most people can't even comprehend.

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Old 03-24-2014, 11:39 PM   #39
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That's a pretty close description of what cold bluing is. The copper sulphate is in the mix to deposite a layer of copper.....like chemical plating. The acids in the mix oxidize the freshly laid copper to a blackish color. (for example, take copper or brass and hit it with BC Super blue or oxpho blue......the acids will make it from brown to black....instant tarnished finish to take the Sportin Gal look offin spanky new muzzleloader furnature) With cold bluing steel, the after rust comes from the acids if not properly removed....the steel can still rust since there just ain't much copper laid down on it.

Caustic blue and hot water/slow rust blue are in fact rust, black ferroferric oxide....same finish, different paths to achieve it.

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Old 03-26-2014, 01:17 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharps40 View Post
That's a pretty close description of what cold bluing is. The copper sulphate is in the mix to deposite a layer of copper.....like chemical plating. The acids in the mix oxidize the freshly laid copper to a blackish color. (for example, take copper or brass and hit it with BC Super blue or oxpho blue......the acids will make it from brown to black....instant tarnished finish to take the Sportin Gal look offin spanky new muzzleloader furnature) With cold bluing steel, the after rust comes from the acids if not properly removed....the steel can still rust since there just ain't much copper laid down on it.

Caustic blue and hot water/slow rust blue are in fact rust, black ferroferric oxide....same finish, different paths to achieve it.
Almost sounds like a forced petina on a carbon steel knife amirite? I just did a similar process with my mora companion HD with I think I used cider vinager but also have used oranges and other citrus due to the acid content . only I laid no copper sulphate.
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