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When the SHTF how much is enough...


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Old 07-30-2009, 10:31 PM   #41
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hi im new in here i checked out the newbee places but dicided this is more interesting i ways always taught to keep a good .22 pistal and rifle. you'll be able to find .22 and 12 guage anywhere thats the most popular amoung common people. i have a good 870 i dont think it gets better than that for a shot gun but id like a mk 3 ruger and a henry lever but im poor so it will be a while
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Old 08-05-2009, 02:23 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by G21.45 View Post
As far as I'm concerned, one of the most interesting comments he ever made is to the effect that inside a hostile urban environment - or anywhere you are subject to circumspect paramilitary scrutiny - no rifle (or shotgun) is worth anything unless it is, (1) short enough to readily wield inside an automobile, and (2) able to be easily concealed inside a coat and underneath your arm while moving about in public.

Unless you live somewhere like on a farm in Iowa, the ability to hit beyond 300 yards ain't worth much. Instead, it's better to be able to walk through town in the middle of the day while well armed without some sniper (official or otherwise) taking you out because you're the only target who's plainly sporting an EBR for all the world to see.
+100. Running around with an AR15 in your hands or on your back is not going to bode well in the widest ranges of "SHTF" between natural disasters, to rioting and looting. Unless zombies are literally sweeping the streets, having an unconcealed rifle will likely cause one more trouble than it's worth. Even in a case, most LEOs or military-men will likely recognize what it is and hassle you over it, perhaps confiscating it or even jailing you if the situation is desparate enough.

My primary and only weapon for myself is my '92 pistol. I can concealed carry it in every day life. I can use it, one handed, in my vehicle, even while actually driving it, easily shooting out any of the windows, or leaning around to shoot behind me. I can reliably point-shoot a torso at 10 yards, and point-shoot at head at about 5 yards. Offhand, I can hit a torso at 50 yards quite easily, and from a solid "rest," like in the prone position or leaning across my hood, I can consistently hit a torso at 100 yards. I can hold a variety of things in one hand (a door, a person, a tool, a weapon) while still shooting it with the other. Finally, it's light weight and small size mean either more ammunition or more other supplies can be carried without increasing weight vs carrying a 6+lb long gun. I know, we always hear how only a fool would only go into battle with a long gun. True, but I don't plan on going into any battles with this setup, but I do plan on it being the weapon I can carry and utilize in the widest variety of civilian-likely situations, which don't include fighting Vietnamese soldiers in the jungle or battling insurgents through dusty streets.

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Originally Posted by RL357Mag View Post
A good shotgun can throw a slug out to 75 yds. or more, accurately. Do you need more?
Exactly! And actually, your average cylinder choke shotgun can hit a torso at 100 yards with a slug. If defending a large flat area from a fixed position, having the extra rifle wouldn't , and might come in handy. But for most people, especially "urban" people, the chances of survival when engaging an enemy at distance (or hell, any distance at all) would be drastically decreased.

Think about it, lets say it's a skilled sniper or rifleman is targeting you from a fortified position (or is even just resting on the hood of a car or lying in the grass), and you know his weapon has the range to accurately hit you. Lets say you know he's there because he missed the first shot, or one of your group actually managed to spot him before being taken out. So, you know there is a threat at distance that is already a danger to you; how easily do you think you could take out that threat in a head-on battle before he at least got one of you? The best solution there would obviously be to run away, or at least flank them if it's absolutely necessary to get to the location that enemy is defending.

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Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
You already have the 686 and the wife's .38. The perfect companion to those would be a nice levergun. Get yourself a Rossi/Puma/Navy Arms Winchester clone in .357/.38. Very good mid range shooting the magnificently lethal magnum or the special. That way you can interchange ammo between guns.
I agree, if you (the OP) do feel a long-gun is necessary, a lever-action in the same caliber would make the most sense. With the hotter, lighter-weight .357 loads, it wouldn't be difficult t o hit a man-sized target at 200 yards if that happened to be justifyable.

And I also agree about getting a lever-action because it doesn't look as "scary."

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Originally Posted by GatorDude View Post
But, I suspect that when law and order is restored, you might have some explaining to do if your house is surrounded by bodies.
While bodies piled up outside the windows and in the yard would not look good, a castle-doctrine state would likely not give you much trouble for it. However, bodies up and down the street and all down the block with bullets matching those from your gun will be VERY hard to explain.

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Originally Posted by justanothersoul View Post
But give me a Costco drone with a bunch of new guns and a man and an old warrior who has only empty hands and I'll put my money on the latter every time. What about you?
+1, and by that I mean instead of spending a few hundred dollars on a rifle, spend it on ammo (for practice and stockpiling) and equipment for your shotgun. For what could be spend on a rifle / scope combo and ammo, a good bit more 12g practice could be had, as well as accessories like shell carriers, slings a folding stock, sights, or whatever. And as was said before, practice PRACTICE PRACTICE. Be able to reload it in the dark. Put time-limitations on practice sessions (for example, twelve accurate hits in maybe 20 seconds, forcing you to both shoot and reload quickly and efficiently).


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Originally Posted by GatorDude View Post
My thought is simply that you shouldn't really need a caddy to carry all your guns.

If you have to bug out, guns are heavy, ammunition is heavy, water is heavy, and other survival supplies are heavy. Heavy means that you have to have a bigger vehicle. A bigger vehicle means lower fuel economy. If you have lower fuel economy, you have to carry more fuel or forage for more fuel. Look at the sticker inside your car door. How much weight is your vehicle rated to carry? How much space is left after each person in your family has a shotgun, a pistol, a rifle, and a bolt gun and ammunition for each?

I think each family member should use the gun that they are most comfortable with. If your family ends up engaging in firefights on a regular basis, it's likely that at least one family member will get seriously hurt or killed. If you suspect that your area is that dangerous, you are probably better off planning to bug out when the bugging is good.

If you live in a low crime area now and the community is filled with decent law-abiding people, if the S hits the fan, the community will likely work together to overcome the challenge. If you live in a high crime area now, the community will probably come and try to kill you and take your TV if the S hits the fan. If the S hits the fan, I am not going to become a murderer just because I am hungry. I'll go hunting, fishing, and try to grow some food.

In addition, the money you spend on guns might also be better spent on a generator or solar cells, agricultural supplies, land in the country, a pop-up trailer, or some other survival gear. If your neighborhood organizes for survival, it will be good to have some guns around. But, the guy with a rotor tiller and some gas is going to be pretty popular.
+1 on all points.

*edit*


Now, don't get me wrong! If you really just want a long-range rifle, get one! Long-range shooting is lot's of fun. I just wouldn't try to make it a priority strictly for survival-purposes, because realistically for the vast majority of people it is low on the list of necessities.

Last edited by Lindenwood; 08-05-2009 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:31 AM   #43
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Depends. I personally require the ability to move fast as possible and move well. You cant carry everything. I am in the high desert just 10 minutes from the deep woods. My neighbors are all armed so hopefully I won't have to bug out.

I have several guns to choose from. With my mags and gear loaded, I have chosen an AK74. Light rounds and light bakelight or bulgie plastic mags. Yes not standard rounds all over but I can carry 240 rounds in loaded mags on my person, 550 rounds on loaded strippers in a 30cal ammo can, and 5 loaded mags in an M60 box pouch on a strap. This allows to to transport ammo with me.

However, my around the house gun and daily companion is an AK Draco pistol in 7.62X39. I have grown to love this gun and it is scary to be on the business end of.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:24 PM   #44
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That's a lot of ammo to carry on you. Just the ammo alone would weigh almost 40 pounds, not including the boxes and magazines themselves! Being able to hose down anything in your path could be useful in extreme cases, but I think a much bigger worry would be either not being able to move fast enough to avoid threads, or even simply exhaustion. If a crowd of hobbling zombies is heading after your group, could you get away carrying a load like that? Could you squeeze through a partly-opened door or window to escape? Could you get into and out of a car without taking a whole minute to manuever or remove / reattach all the equipment?

Or do you just mean that is what you could easily toss into a car?


My BO weapons are just my pistol (Taurus PT92), two 17rd mags and a 21rd mag, and another 140 rounds in a small plastic bottle. If it's bad enough, I could toss another couple hundred rounds into my pack, but I don't think I'd go too extreme with it .
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:18 AM   #45
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Well, I would agree that you will not see many folks walking around long with AK & AR's strung over their shoulders if the army or police is out. If it was a major thing, like an emp attack that you are preparing for I would get an AK with a folding stock and get a tennis racket bag to carry it in.

If you plan of bugging out you want to look like the rest of the crowd. In most cases a hi cap 9mm would be good but you already have one of the best revovlers made so use what you have.
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:26 AM   #46
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I wont be walking out in the streets even if I bug out. Luckily there arent only buildiings and streets around my area. I'll go play Boy Scout in the backyard.

S.S.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:45 AM   #47
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357 revolver
357 lever action carbine

Considerations

[E]nergy : Food/water
[E]nemy : Defensive tools
[E]nvironment: Ability to make fire. Ability to protect against weather
[I]njury : Medical supplies
[U]tility : medium of exchange
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:05 AM   #48
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I would probably carry my 3 45's,my 308 lever action with scope, and my mini 14/223 that I am on process of buying, and my Mossburg 500sp, and a bandoleer of ammo for each,would not carry any loose rounds,and the rations and replenish ammo and necessities from the Military/leo that decided to follow unlawful orders and any one with a blue helmet on. I would most likely be in an urban area, so the 308 with scope would be for high vantage points and the 223.shotgun and 45's and what ever else was taken off of kills would for keeping stairways clear.

I would also hope like minded individuals would also be with me to cover each others back. The way things are looking right now, we wont have to worry so much about riots, or as you call them zombies, but some type of Military force that wants to contain you. So basically, I plan to use escape and evasion tactics and hide,resupply, then hide for another opportunity and do it as required. The main thing is to try to get as much of the modern technology from the aggressor as you can so you can level the playing field.

If you could survive for at least a month, you should be able to start a good supply off the aggressors and you start getting better at it.

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Old 08-28-2009, 09:11 PM   #49
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I'm just going to be in a tank and drive around taking out people with plinking toys.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:14 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojubrian View Post
I'm just going to be in a tank and drive around taking out people with plinking toys.
Yeah? That's what
thought too....

Didn't work out so well for him as he ended up in the morgue.

Beware the guys with the "plinking toys" - you may be visiting the boatman before you ever hear the shot.
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