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Old 05-07-2012, 10:13 PM   #61
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AZL, I agree with you, as it pertains to people breaking the law. What I'm refering to is both the attitude of Kalifornia LEO (and other states) who will put you in jail if you openly excercise your 2nd Amendment rights, and what I believe will be the case for most LEOs and military in the event of an uncontitutional State of Emergency. Why is it that a soldier can carry a weapon while he serves but must turn it in when he is discharged? Why is it that in Kalifornia (and elsewhere) when a LEO turns in his badge, he also looses the right to openly bear his arms? I think the answer is not safety, it's that authority figures no longer "control" that individual. That's why, in a disaster situation, the authorities are sure to violate our rights and confiscate our arms; because we don't answer to them; we are free, and they don't like that.

For that very reason our founding fathers made it the second most important amendment, right after freedom of speech. AZL, I would ask you, and other LEOs, to consider this possibility and if you agree that it may happen someday and that it would not be good for our country, that you would talk to your fellow officers now about how they should react if given the command to disarm the public.
Is it not now illegal (according to the laws of the state of California, according to legislation enacted by representatives ELECTED by the PEOPLE of California and signed by the GOVERNOR who was ELECTED by the PEOPLE of California) to open carry in California?

I don't agree with the law in California. I certainly don't agree with ANY law that infringes on the 2nd Ammendment...BUT...the PEOPLE od California pissed away their rights by continually electing these people who pissed ON your rights...I mean really? Jerry Brown...AGAIN?

I have no sympathy for those who bitch, yet do NOTHING about it.

New York City and the Sullivan Law? OMFG. It has been DECADES and the PEOPLE have done nothing to change it, only bitch about it.

The simple truth is: As long as you allow the same people to be elected and re-elected, the results will NEVER change. Whining about it is not taking responsibility for it and DOING something about it.

Whether or not something is unconstitutional is never going to be ruled upon unless the PEOPLE get it to the state or the US Supreme Court.

Arizonans fought for and got CCW. The they elected Pearce who got us Constitutional Carry.

It CAN be done, but not by pissing and moaning about it, and blaming cops for laws they didn't write. It's like blaming a spoon for making your girlfriend fat, or a pencil for your kid being illiterate.

Without a group of people who take responsibility, nothing will get done.

Bring up the founding fathers...they would have got NOTHING done with bitching without acting.

Personally...during an emergency, as an officer the LAST thing I would have done is disarm someone (unless they were a criminal i.e. convicted).

Don't get on the pity pony and play the blame game and blame the cops. Put the balme where it belongs...on the shoulders of the nitwits who keep electing the nitwits who destroyed your rights.

Hell, I'd like to see every single lawful gun owner in the country, stand up and say **** YOU, and carry. BUT...that being said...I never wrote a piece of legislation. I voted the people I believed would best carry out MY agenda. If they failed to do so, I voted them OUT.

When was the last time you called or wrote your representative? When was the last time you got a group of people together and wrote and called them on the same day with the same purpose?

But..yeah...blame the cops. Blame the whatever as long as it donesn't put responsibility on YOUR shoulders to DO something other than piss and moan.

THAT is how the nanny state will continue to thrive and grow.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:32 PM   #62
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Boy, AZL, you got quite the temper. I'm 3rd generation from this state, voted against these people for 45 years, I talk to whoever will listen, and I obey (reluctantly sometimes) every law passed dispite my efforts. I'm not asking for LEOs to willingly forfit their jobs by defending our 2nd Amendment rights. I'm asking them to discuss ahead of time, the subject of wholesale "confiscation" should there be an unconstitutional State of Emergency declared (look at my earlier texts). What I don't want to see is ugly confrontations between armed police/military and armed citizens when SHTF.

When the government declares Martial Law or a State of Emergency I'm willing to peacefully live and let live as an armed citizen. Are you willing to possibly defy orders and do the same for the sake of the country?

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Old 05-07-2012, 10:45 PM   #63
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Popgun, AZL doesn't have a temper, he just doesn't sugarcoat the truth nor is he about soothing peoples egos. he just says things the way he sees them. plain spoken and to the point. he is stating that, most of people in California have elected officials with less than ideal stances on guns and gun laws, and they have continually been elected or replaced with those who think and act the same.

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Old 05-07-2012, 10:53 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZL View Post
Is it not now illegal (according to the laws of the state of California, according to legislation enacted by representatives ELECTED by the PEOPLE of California and signed by the GOVERNOR who was ELECTED by the PEOPLE of California) to open carry in California?

I don't agree with the law in California. I certainly don't agree with ANY law that infringes on the 2nd Ammendment...BUT...the PEOPLE od California pissed away their rights by continually electing these people who pissed ON your rights...I mean really? Jerry Brown...AGAIN?

I have no sympathy for those who bitch, yet do NOTHING about it.

New York City and the Sullivan Law? OMFG. It has been DECADES and the PEOPLE have done nothing to change it, only bitch about it.

The simple truth is: As long as you allow the same people to be elected and re-elected, the results will NEVER change. Whining about it is not taking responsibility for it and DOING something about it.

Whether or not something is unconstitutional is never going to be ruled upon unless the PEOPLE get it to the state or the US Supreme Court.

Arizonans fought for and got CCW. The they elected Pearce who got us Constitutional Carry.

It CAN be done, but not by pissing and moaning about it, and blaming cops for laws they didn't write. It's like blaming a spoon for making your girlfriend fat, or a pencil for your kid being illiterate.

Without a group of people who take responsibility, nothing will get done.

Bring up the founding fathers...they would have got NOTHING done with bitching without acting.

Personally...during an emergency, as an officer the LAST thing I would have done is disarm someone (unless they were a criminal i.e. convicted).

Don't get on the pity pony and play the blame game and blame the cops. Put the balme where it belongs...on the shoulders of the nitwits who keep electing the nitwits who destroyed your rights.

Hell, I'd like to see every single lawful gun owner in the country, stand up and say **** YOU, and carry. BUT...that being said...I never wrote a piece of legislation. I voted the people I believed would best carry out MY agenda. If they failed to do so, I voted them OUT.

When was the last time you called or wrote your representative? When was the last time you got a group of people together and wrote and called them on the same day with the same purpose?

But..yeah...blame the cops. Blame the whatever as long as it donesn't put responsibility on YOUR shoulders to DO something other than piss and moan.

THAT is how the nanny state will continue to thrive and grow.
I encourage everyone reading this thread to read the book Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010 by Charles Murray. It explains an awful lot.

As for cops, as I see it the cops are inundated with the worst bits of humanity in their day-to-day work so that when they encounter ANYONE, even someone who doesn't fit a profile of "probably dangerous", they over-react. That's human nature. And it's probably asking too much of them to differentiate between those who are probably going to be dangerous and those who probably won't be.

Society has changed: cops are trying to cope in such a way where they can get the job done AND go home every night to their families. The book above helps shine some light on the split in America that the cops face daily. My hat's off to cops; I wouldn't want to try to do their job. But I appreciate the idea of individual rights very much and resent when cops crap on that out of a sense of self-preservation. More to the point, I resent we have come to this point where they feel they have to do that.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:39 PM   #65
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Popgun, AZL doesn't have a temper, he just doesn't sugarcoat the truth nor is he about soothing peoples egos. he just says things the way he sees them. plain spoken and to the point. he is stating that, most of people in California have elected officials with less than ideal stances on guns and gun laws, and they have continually been elected or replaced with those who think and act the same.
Ok, let me remove any suggestion of sugarcoating as well.

I agree that I live in a state that has gone to the absolute dogs in spite of my efforts otherwise. But the example I gave, "Katrina" where confiscations and forced relocations took place was in the conservative southern state of Louisiana. And nobody that I ever heard from ever mentioned anybody involved in these acts (police or military) as trying to prevent them. My point is that it can happen anywhere, and if it ever does happen nation-wide, that will be the end of our country; we will never get our rights back again (opinion). If anybody thinks that that's cop bashing, then suck-it-up and get over yourself.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:51 PM   #66
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sounds like you've lost hope already. that's too bad. that's exactly what we DON'T need.

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Old 05-08-2012, 12:16 AM   #67
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I see alot more evidence of "us vs. them" above and am dismayed because this is a site for those dedicated to at least one too-oft trampled civil liberty enumerated in The Bill of Rights. But I'm not totally surprised knowing how easy it is for a coin to flip.

Nothing personal AZL. You never stopped me on red light detail. It's evident what kind of guy you were on the job.

Popgun, you are sorta sugar-coating it. Yes, "confiscations and forced relocations" were the orders of the day. But some officers who didn't just flee their posts in Katrina were actually guilty of armed robbery and murder.

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Old 05-08-2012, 12:28 AM   #68
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Boy, AZL, you got quite the temper. I'm 3rd generation from this state, voted against these people for 45 years, I talk to whoever will listen, and I obey (reluctantly sometimes) every law passed dispite my efforts. I'm not asking for LEOs to willingly forfit their jobs by defending our 2nd Amendment rights. I'm asking them to discuss ahead of time, the subject of wholesale "confiscation" should there be an unconstitutional State of Emergency declared (look at my earlier texts). What I don't want to see is ugly confrontations between armed police/military and armed citizens when SHTF.

When the government declares Martial Law or a State of Emergency I'm willing to peacefully live and let live as an armed citizen. Are you willing to possibly defy orders and do the same for the sake of the country?
How can you make the assertion that I have a temper? Are you sitting next to me as I type? Anything in caps or bolded is not "yelling" as they say in type-speak. It is an illustrative tool to denote key parts of my statement.

You ascribe an emotion where none exists. I merely sought to point out that the responsibility for unconstitutional legislation ultimately falls on the shoulders of the people who decided to, or worse, not to vote and let their voices be heard.

The truth is, I don't know you, and thus couldn't generate a positive or negative emotion or opinion about you on a personal level.

But...if you read my entire post, you will see plainly that I as a person, citizen, and as an officer who swore an oath...would NEVER disarm citizens in time of emergency (gangbangers and convicted felons aside if I knew their rap sheet). That's not my style.

When I type "YOU"...I am speaking editorily as I have mentioned on many threads.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:39 AM   #69
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I see alot more evidence of "us vs. them" here and I'm dismayed, because this is a site dedicated to an aspect of The Bill of Rights, but not totally surprised given how easy it is to flip that coin.

Nothing personal AZL: thank you for your 20-yr. pensioned service.
Your post makes NO sense to anyone familiar with the english language. You claim to see "evidence" yet you don't offer any for anyone to consider.

You are dismayed why? You are dismayed because this is a site dedicated to The Bill Of Rights? I thought this was a site dedicated to guns and shooting. You were unclear about what your dismay comes from?

Not totally surprised about what? How easy to flip what coin? What coin is your hyperbole representing? What two sides of what argument? That was just kind of tacked onto the end of a poorly constructed sentence that lacked a main idea, follow through, supportive statement....or common sense.

That you have no evidence to present, or that you haven't the skills to articulate it and your rhetoric is unoriginal and not persuasive?

Because you are unoriginal and I have heard your tired BS before, I think I know what you;re trying to say...."Us Versus them"

Yes, absolutely...it is us versus them. The cops versus (for lack of a better term) the robbers. I don't know a single cop I know that is "against" John Q. and Mrs. Penelope Public. We have more important **** to do than rub our hands together and plan ways to screw the public.

If you really think you know what it is to be a cop...get off your fat ass and try to be one.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:42 AM   #70
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What is with all the bickering today? Can you guys take it down a notch please? Let's be civil

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