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Old 05-06-2012, 06:44 PM   #31
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"There are various ways to look at it, but I think we conquered the Japanese, we conquered the Germans, and we are making friends with the Muslims, when they are clearly our enemy. In my mind we liberated the French from the Germans, we liberated Africans from the Germans, we liberated the Philippines from the Japanese. It's rather difficult to liberate the people from their own people.....I think that first takes conquering for a couple generations."

EagleSix very well said.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:01 PM   #32
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No, "the Muslims" are not our enemies. "They" may not be our friends either by and large, but that's OK and you'll need to be just a bit more specific. Different peoples often get along OK. Our's is not a holy war but for those Muslims waging jihad, it is. Those are our enemy as a result of their actions, not ours nor their religion across the board.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:42 PM   #33
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I agree with much of what is said here, but I do believe that there will come a national or global disaster or condition so grave that many in the military will dare not disobey their orders. They will monitor check-points as ordered, confiscate civilian weapons, and detain those who resist. When food becomes scarce, they will forage for food to feed the populations even if it's from your personal stocks (if you have what they think is an excess amount).

(my opinion) We talk as if we will still have an America after SHTF; I hope we do. But... when disaster strikes, and the President signs-off on this whole Martial Law thing (which he will), then there is no more America. No Constitution, no Bill of Rights, no Amendment Rights, nothing but what the military and Homeland Security say are your rights.

My question is this; what do you do after a disaster when you are confronted by 3 or 4 young soldiers holding assault rifles telling you that you must hand over any and all weapons? Or they come to your house or compound telling you that they are under orders to confiscate some of your provisions to feed other people?

I don't have a good answer to this but I think we all need to consider and plan for this probable outcome. I'm sure some will take this oppotunity to martyr themselves in defense of our discarded Constitution, Others of us may need to just re-think how we prepare, store, and carry our weapons and provisions, and learn how to "act" when we come in contact with these "sheepdogs". Leave them think that we are just some more innocent sheep to be ignored. If we really want to survive, I think we need to be thinking about this subject more and a little less about another pound of flour or another 1000 rounds of ammo.

These is just my thoughts and opinions, I hope I'm wrong. I would like to see if I'm the only one who thinks this outcome likely.

Thanks

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:47 PM   #34
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No, "the Muslims" are not our enemies. "They" may not be our friends either by and large, but that's OK and you'll need to be just a bit more specific. Different peoples often get along OK. Our's is not a holy war but for those Muslims waging jihad, it is. Those are our enemy as a result of their actions, not ours nor their religion across the board.
We both fought for our right to agree, disagree, and to agree to disagree. We both have a right to stand by our beliefs and the right to change our mind.....I know I have certainly changed mine many times since my youth.

Most Germans in 1940 weren't Nazi's, but they were of the same cloth and it certainly wasn't my fellow countryman who fired the ovens and kill hundreds of thousands. I know many Muslims and some are my friends. If they are Muslim, they follow the Koran. If they follow the Koran, they are my enemy.

I'm sure there were Japanese in 1945 who did not hate Americans, as probably there were Germans in 1944 who didn't hate Americans......nonetheless, by intent or not, they stood by their countryman in an attempt to defeat us.......they were our enemy until conquered and so be it with the Muslims. Until I express my right to change my mind, that is my belief and feeling.


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It is easy for people to discuss what they are going to do and how they are going to survive when SHTF. The reality of it is that 30% of all people in urban area will survive where they live if SHTF. The amount of resources in correlation to the amount of people will be unbelievable. The ability for most people to protect themselves and their families and protect their resources will be about 10% and loosing them and their lives will be 90% unless they have a big group and lots of arsenal to back them up. The truth is that maybe 3% of the population of the U.S. will survive if SHTF soon. Most people who talk about this do not know how to survive the catastrophes that will come. People who live in the country and who have a exit plan and a chosen place to go to will outlast everyone especially if they have family, friends, and a group with plenty of provisions and weapons with people who have experience and training to teach those who do not know how to survive. I am sorry this is so long. I just want to be part of a group that is ready and will be there when SHTF and where I can go and help protect everyone and whatever the group has stock piled. That is why I am interested in a group that undestands that without weapons a group will not be able to survive if SHTF.
Now my feeble attempt to get back on topic!!.....NightHawk, I understand the theme of your thread and your point, but I think your figures are a bite off, and that's why I asked earlier if you could provide how you arrived with those percentages and can support them. Thank You.....
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:11 PM   #35
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I agree with much of what is said here, but I do believe that there will come a national or global disaster or condition so grave that many in the military will dare not disobey their orders. They will monitor check-points as ordered, confiscate civilian weapons, and detain those who resist. When food becomes scarce, they will forage for food to feed the populations even if it's from your personal stocks (if you have what they think is an excess amount).
Is that "many" mean the majority? And, do you include police forces as well? What do think will be the outcome or effort of those who do not buckle, and will disobey their orders?



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(my opinion) We talk as if we will still have an America after SHTF; I hope we do. But... when disaster strikes, and the President signs-off on this whole Martial Law thing (which he will), then there is no more America. No Constitution, no Bill of Rights, no Amendment Rights, nothing but what the military and Homeland Security say are your rights.
I think this will always be America, although through a period of time, it may not be what we are used to. Maybe it's time. Maybe it is destiny to re-arrange this country before we can return to our forefather roots.


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My question is this; what do you do after a disaster when you are confronted by 3 or 4 young soldiers holding assault rifles telling you that you must hand over any and all weapons? Or they come to your house or compound telling you that they are under orders to confiscate some of your provisions to feed other people?
I would not think "3 or 4 young soldiers coming for my guns" would be after the disaster, but during and part of the disaster. I can visualize those who are within the immediate control of the authorities as being easy victims, while others of us, being remote and perhaps connected will be in a better position to resist.



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I don't have a good answer
me either, despite many attempts......my crystal ball just will not provide me with the outlook!



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These is just my thoughts and opinions, I hope I'm wrong. I would like to see if I'm the only one who thinks this outcome likely.

Thanks
I hope you are wrong as well........it's a bit scary when you are sure something bad is going to happen, but can't forecast what it will be.......there are a lot of variables, and none of them appear to be good!
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:18 PM   #36
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Baccha & Mosin

I am with you 110%! The one thing they may not want to forget is there is not match for experience, old age and treachery!
And not hesitation to defend our freedom! A lot of us have done it before!

God Bless America!

03

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:54 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=EagleSix;792371]Is that "many" mean the majority? And, do you include police forces as well? What do think will be the outcome or effort of those who do not buckle, and will disobey their orders?

Well, there has been 8 events in American history where Martial Law was initiated, the first was President Lincoln and that was nation-wide, (the courts later determined that to be un-constitutional). The last was Katrina (though they use a different term now, "State of Emergency". During the Katrina State of Emergency, from what I've read, police and military went house to house confiscating civilian weapons and forcing people out of their homes and into designated areas established by authorities. They also set-up checkpoints at the stadium where people were searched for weapons and disarmed. And with all of that, I have yet to read about or hear about any police officers or military personnel disobeying orders on the basis of it being in violation of our Constitution. And that was only a localized storm. I'd love to hear the stories of our defenders if there are any. Please don't take this as disrespecting our police or our military personnel. People will do what they think is right at the moment, especially if they are instructed to do so by people in higher authority.

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Old 05-07-2012, 12:12 AM   #38
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Heck, in Katrina some local police murdered the "wrong color" people trying to cross a bridge and even more tried to cover it up. Others looted stores, confiscated guns, changed into civies and abandoned town. THEN, the state imported cops from California and deputized them to go door to door to confiscate arms including from old ladies they had to beat up.

Once your unit is formed up it's hard to break ranks. Especially if you're the only ones promised food, clean clothes, secure shelter, unlimited firepower, electricity, entertainmant, and have no-place else to go...

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Old 05-07-2012, 12:41 AM   #39
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Guys I think we all need to start thinking in different terms if that day ever comes when we are ordered to give up personal property. Gorilla warefare is a very effective way to resist. I think it would be prudent for all preppers to learn all they can about this.

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Old 05-07-2012, 01:18 AM   #40
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i was wondering the same what would yall do if 3 soilders came to your house demanded your guns ammo possibly some food Do you give up everythang or Defend your God givin freedom and go out in a blaze?

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