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Old 05-08-2012, 08:49 PM   #111
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That pretty much nails it right there. We're serfs, folks. We pay the feudal lord for permission to reside on his land. If you don't agree, try not paying your property taxes and see how long you get to keep "your" land.
^^^^^^^ That's it......for the vast majority, they are renting their land for which they have a phony dead. If you don't own your land, how is that freedom?

But more specifically......the US Constitution doesn't give you a right to own, posses, or carry a gun in any fashion. It supports the fact free men have a right to do so, some say it is a God given right, I personally don't think God has anything to do with it, but I can live with that statement. Yet the Federal, state, county, city and town laws have forever infringed on that right.



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i will take action when they start eroding my freedom here were i am now i can rightly carry a handgun anywere in public except schools ect ect open carry or conceled i can carry a .223 rifel in a gunrack in the back of my pickup i can hunt fish farm all i want my freedoms are not and have not been taken away so no i dont need to act or do anythang now but let someone come and tell me i cant have my guns i cant farm and will see what happens to them
So your right to carry in a school, etc., etc......is not infringing on your freedom to protect yourself? Actually your choice, as an individual with no allegiance to a pack, if they come to take your guns or your farm is to give it to them, go to jail, or end your existence.......not a good choice........just because you are "right" doesn't mean you will not be successfully "wronged".

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:47 PM   #112
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^^^^^^^ That's it......for the vast majority, they are renting their land for which they have a phony dead. If you don't own your land, how is that freedom?

But more specifically......the US Constitution doesn't give you a right to own, posses, or carry a gun in any fashion. It supports the fact free men have a right to do so, some say it is a God given right, I personally don't think God has anything to do with it, but I can live with that statement. Yet the Federal, state, county, city and town laws have forever infringed on that right.

.
Thanks, EagleSix.

Allodial titles, which grant the land-owner true and real ownership independent of any superior landlord, are a thing of the past. If individuals cannot own land, how can we ever be free as individuals?

Let me put it another way: If I wanted to "go Galt" and go buy some acreage and keep goats and chickens, grow food, hunt and fish, build my own home and get out of debt completely in order that I don't need to earn money except for what I choose to sell or barter, it simply can't be done. It is impossible, in the U.S. today, for an individual to become self-sufficient without also being forced to have some income to pay property taxes.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:58 PM   #113
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Thanks, EagleSix.

Allodial titles, which grant the land-owner true and real ownership independent of any superior landlord, are a thing of the past. If individuals cannot own land, how can we ever be free as individuals?

Let me put it another way: If I wanted to "go Galt" and go buy some acreage and keep goats and chickens, grow food, hunt and fish, build my own home and get out of debt completely in order that I don't need to earn money except for what I choose to sell or barter, it simply can't be done. It is impossible, in the U.S. today, for an individual to become self-sufficient without also being forced to have some income to pay property taxes.
And it's all too sad.

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:48 PM   #114
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Thanks, EagleSix.

Allodial titles, which grant the land-owner true and real ownership independent of any superior landlord, are a thing of the past. If individuals cannot own land, how can we ever be free as individuals?

Let me put it another way: If I wanted to "go Galt" and go buy some acreage and keep goats and chickens, grow food, hunt and fish, build my own home and get out of debt completely in order that I don't need to earn money except for what I choose to sell or barter, it simply can't be done. It is impossible, in the U.S. today, for an individual to become self-sufficient without also being forced to have some income to pay property taxes.

That's not the government's fault. Most of the ideals that we as Americans hold dear came about with the founding of the nation. Those early Americans lived in a wilderness and land was plentiful. Everything changed in the late 1800's with the closing of the frontier. Land was no longer free for the taking and for the first time all of the land was owned by someone. The intent of property taxes was to keep individuals from buying large tracks of land and just letting it sit. Property taxes made that land costly and gave people an incentive to sell land, which is finite and limited. That's a necessary thing in a country with a growing population and limited land. Without property taxes wealthy individuals could just buy large tracks of land and then truly live like English aristocrats, with others forever renting from them. They would be fools to ever sell any of that land.

I hate the thought of property taxes as much as anyone because they do make us surfs, but they are necessary. And it's no one's fault. It's just one of the many sacrifices that we have to make in order to coexist with a lot of other people in a limited space. There were a lot of issues brought up in this thread that are complicated with no easy answers, and I struggle with many of those questions myself. Just remember that some sacrifices we make are truly necessary and are not the result of tyranny.

The line between necessary sacrifice and tyranny can be very blurry.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:08 AM   #115
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If we are talking about a SHTF disaster event, then taxes are not really going to be much of an issue. Everyone will be in the same boat and they are not going to be able to evict everyone. The critical times are going to be the first days, weeks, and months after the event. To pay your taxes, just sell somebody a pound beef for a few thousand dollars worth of worthless US bank notes and pay that to the government; serves them right, they helped make the stuff worthless.

As for what rules, laws, or commands to obey during and after a national disaster, I would follow all the laws legally enacted in your state before the disaster occurance. The Federal government cannot legally enact Martial Law, there is no provision in our Constitution allowing it to be set-aside, even temporarily. If they do it anyway, all those involved would be acting as "Domestic Enemies". They can call it a State of Emergency, that's fine, but they have no right to suspend any provision of our Constitution. States are different. Each state has different constitutions, laws etc. I would think that they MAY have the right to call for a State of Emergency and possibly suspend their own state constitution and laws, BUT, each individual American citizen should still be protected by their U.S. Constitutional rights; the states may NOT violate our Federal Constitution. Counties and Cities would be similar.

National and regional leaders are not going to like having their control limited in a time of crisis so it's going to be a struggle insisting that our Constitution be honored, even during a crisis, but in the end we will all be better for it as our country will be intact.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:30 AM   #116
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If things get "that bad"...the reality of it is...you won't have to concern yourselves with too much federal "law" or "lawful authority". I would take it a step further, and predict that the politicians (especially those on the federal level) will be more concerned about their luxury bug out complex and personal security.

Local, as in town and smaller county, governments may function like an old town council. BUT...you will more likely see smaller communities band together, and not let outsiders in.

Local, town cops and deputies, won't really be all that concerned with "the big picture". They will be busy in their own towns, and FXXK the Fed will pretty well be the norm. Remember...local cops still have to live in their own towns, and out here especially...they are outnumbered and seriously outgunned. We also have several state and private prisons with thousands of felons to keep penned up...a LOT of resources will be directed at that. Doing the bidding of Darth Obama and the Empire won't be much of a blip on the radar.

As for "martial law" being declared on a town or county level...I'd not worry about it...re-read my post about just how outnumbered police forces really are. Look at Los Angeles post-Rodney King. The authorites only regained control when the mobs looted all they could, and ran out of steam...it wasn't because of any action the city or county took.

I know that some EOTW wet dreams just got "roont"...but there you have it.

Though I am retired, I am deputized and sowrn here...and if I am called out, you can bet doing Obama's bidding will not be on my list of **** to do.

Local cops, local ranchers, farmers, and regular folks will do a lot to keep order AS WE SEE FIT. And one thing I am fairly confident about is that a lot of the people who were scum before the balloon went up, will be...dealt with...and not investigated too vigorously. NOT by the cops, but dealt with by local folk who are just plain tired of their ****.

Whatever concerns there are about the military...I think that will be, for the most part, a non starter. Refer back to the HUNDRED MILLION gun owners, and the numbers just don't support a massive troop movement into homes and towns...it just doesn't make sense.

BUT...hey...who am I to tell you not to let logic and common sense cloud your judgement.

It's gonna be a hoot. A HOOT I tell you.

I almost hate to admit it...but I'd LOVE to see a world wide "reset". The gene pool definitely needs a good chlorine shock. Can you imagine a world without 3rd, 4th, and even 5th generation welfare leeches draining resources? Can you imagine a world where people actually EARN what they have? Can you just imagine how pleasant that will be after the last 40 plus years of entitlement and gimme gimme gimme womb to tomb food stamps and "wheah mah check?"

Can you just imagine?

How freaking AWESOME would it be to come out the other side of something like that?

BUT...like any good doomsday movie...it isn't going to happen. We will never return to a democratic utopia. EVEN if all that happened...nuclear power plants will eventually cook off, and we will all be toast.

So...screw it...enjoy the mayhem while you can.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:59 AM   #117
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.

There are some former military who will claim tha mantle of leader. BUT...unless you were a marine 0311 or an Army 11B who actually had your ass in the grass and had at least made Squad Leader...you will be staring at SOMEONE hoping SOMEONE will give you an order and tell you what do do.
If find this statement to be slightly ignorant. For lower enlisted E- and lower? Yes. For officers (NCO, Warrant and Commissioned)? No. Warrant and Commissioned Officers are trained from the get go to be leaders. And there are a number of MOS's outside of infantry where you have your "ass in the grass".
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:17 AM   #118
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If find this statement to be slightly ignorant. For lower enlisted E- and lower? Yes. For officers (NCO, Warrant and Commissioned)? No. Warrant and Commissioned Officers are trained from the get go to be leaders. And there are a number of MOS's outside of infantry where you have your "ass in the grass".
+100. Couldn't agree more.

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Old 05-09-2012, 01:24 AM   #119
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...how do you feel we should all act to resolve the solution?
AZL obviously needed to retire (rubber gun squad). His father FLEW in Korea and Vietnam. In any case, I don't usually see a point in resolving a solution Eagle -- that's kinda going in circles like your "us vs. them" baiting. And I don't even wanna know what Kris is advocating...

I will say this though, in stark contradiction to some of the unreadable paranoia...

I am not on the black helicopter conspiracy committee. "They" are us. Don't like your representatives or the bureaucracy? Do something about it. Now. Turn the tide. Make bad cops like AZL retire. RIF Infantry-School-Only lifers and hire 'em as temps through offshore contracts. Get involved with conservative (small "c") political groups instead of whining and trying to divide better people. Positively and proudly defend your core liberties here, now, when it's cheap and easy. And instead of beating your chests and shaking your fists, shut those past-your-prime pieholes, make your preparations, and rue the day you ever have to rely on them little boys.

"Flew" he said, right?
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:59 AM   #120
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AZL obviously needed to retire (rubber gun squad). His father FLEW in Korea and Vietnam. In any case, I don't usually see a point in resolving a solution Eagle -- that's kinda going in circles like your "us vs. them" baiting. And I don't even wanna know what Kris is advocating...

I will say this though, in stark contradiction to some of the unreadable paranoia...

I am not on the black helicopter conspiracy committee. "They" are us. Don't like your representatives or the bureaucracy? Do something about it. Now. Turn the tide. Make bad cops like AZL retire. RIF Infantry-School-Only lifers and hire 'em as temps through offshore contracts. Get involved with conservative (small "c") political groups instead of whining and trying to divide better people. Positively and proudly defend your core liberties here, now, when it's cheap and easy. And instead of beating your chests and shaking your fists, shut those past-your-prime pieholes, make your preparations, and rue the day you ever have to rely on them little boys.

"Flew" he said, right?


Yes...FLEW:Korea and Vietnam. My father went into the Army AIR CORPS in 1946, after graduating from University Of Arizona with a degree in mechanical engineering. It was the year before it became the Air Force. He served a total of 38 years. 25 active duty, where he retired at the rank of Colonel, and another 13 in the Arizona Air National Guard. He flew F80 Shooting Stars in Korea, and through the rest of the 1950's he flew the "Century Jets"...F100, F107, etc...in 1966-67 he was in Vietnam where he flew the F105 Thundercheif (I was born in January of 1968 (ten months almost to the day after he came home).

My father passed away in 1994 at the age of 71, and is buried at the National Memorial Cemetary in Phoenix, AZ.

So...Hock...piss off. My father may not have been a hero to anyone but me...but at least HE served. What was it again that YOU do? You're probably a short, fat pimply little bitch-made turd living in your parent's basement, playing video games, trolling forums, and rubbing them out to some comic book vixens. As I mentioned before...every time my dogs licks its ass..you are getting a kiss. Douche.

And you know...I may be "past my prime"...but on my worst, most infirm day...I am ten times the man you will ever be.

As for bad cop? I am not even going to let that bother me. I will just consider the source.
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