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Old 05-08-2012, 05:37 PM   #101
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It seems to me your question has changed from would "you" take action to when will "you" take action.
Two very different questions imo.
perhaps they are different questions. However, they are DIRECTLY correlated. "would you take action" is easy to answer. of course. the difficult question is what will make you take action? what action will cause our reaction?

so i suppose, look at it this way. assume "would you" as step 1. everyone here has answered yes. now I want to move the thread a step further (and away from all of the us vs them talk!). now step 2 is the question "when will you". I want to get everyone thinking, really thinking, about what their point of break is; and discussing it. our forefathers took action due to taxes, but we are more tolerant (it would seem) of taxes than ever. where do we, as a people, draw the line?
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:04 PM   #102
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i will take action when they start eroding my freedom here were i am now i can rightly carry a handgun anywere in public except schools ect ect open carry or conceled i can carry a .223 rifel in a gunrack in the back of my pickup i can hunt fish farm all i want my freedoms are not and have not been taken away so no i dont need to act or do anythang now but let someone come and tell me i cant have my guns i cant farm and will see what happens to them

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Old 05-08-2012, 06:30 PM   #103
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i will take action when they start eroding my freedom here were i am now i can rightly carry a handgun anywere in public except schools ect ect open carry or conceled i can carry a .223 rifel in a gunrack in the back of my pickup i can hunt fish farm all i want my freedoms are not and have not been taken away so no i dont need to act or do anythang now but let someone come and tell me i cant have my guns i cant farm and will see what happens to them
Birch, do you pay property/land taxes for your farm?

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Old 05-08-2012, 06:57 PM   #104
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~snip~ so i suppose, look at it this way. assume "would you" as step 1. everyone here has answered yes. now I want to move the thread a step further (and away from all of the us vs them talk!). now step 2 is the question "when will you". I want to get everyone thinking, really thinking, about what their point of break is; and discussing it. our forefathers took action due to taxes, but we are more tolerant (it would seem) of taxes than ever. where do we, as a people, draw the line?
I would go along with your assumption on question 1, reserving that I doubt everyone here or anywhere actually answers yes......but I'll roll with it.

I think question 2 is unobtainable here in an internet forum. For one, some of the conditions and words describing them would be to harsh.......for two, there are too many conditions relevant to reach that point which is, "we have had enough". I think it will take exactly that, the extreme, the point when enough is enough, when a large enough group of Americans reach the point they are really scared and fear total control is the only other option to doing something to prevent it, of which option today would seem extreme and perhaps only spoken in trusted circles.

If you had an answer to your question, I would think you would state it and let others comment.........or, you are baiting us........or, you don't have the answers either. Fair enough, but I think your question 2 is just going to review the same old "what if, then's" that have been discussed all over the country and the web for many years now.

Everyone has a little different tolerance for adversity, whether that be gauged by what effects the majority as a whole, or the individual and/or family. It seems to take an extreme condition before enough people have exceeded their tolerance level and are willing to hang together and act to resolve the issue.

I think we have already reached the point our freedom and liberties have been reasonably breached, but at the moment, I'm the minority. Perhaps soon I will be in the majority!

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:05 PM   #105
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I would go along with your assumption on question 1, reserving that I doubt everyone here or anywhere actually answers yes......but I'll roll with it.

I think question 2 is unobtainable here in an internet forum. For one, some of the conditions and words describing them would be to harsh.......for two, there are too many conditions relevant to reach that point which is, "we have had enough". I think it will take exactly that, the extreme, the point when enough is enough, when a large enough group of Americans reach the point they are really scared and fear total control is the only other option to doing something to prevent it, of which option today would seem extreme and perhaps only spoken in trusted circles.

If you had an answer to your question, I would think you would state it and let others comment.........or, you are baiting us........or, you don't have the answers either. Fair enough, but I think your question 2 is just going to review the same old "what if, then's" that have been discussed all over the country and the web for many years now.

Everyone has a little different tolerance for adversity, whether that be gauged by what effects the majority as a whole, or the individual and/or family. It seems to take an extreme condition before enough people have exceeded their tolerance level and are willing to hang together and act to resolve the issue.

I think we have already reached the point our freedom and liberties have been reasonably breached, but at the moment, I'm the minority. Perhaps soon I will be in the majority!

.
I am not baiting. I legitimately want to know what everyone's breaking point is. I think it's good to have it openly discussed and have it active in everyone's minds. And i don't have the answers. Never claimed to. This is why i ask. The attempt to disarm the public would be a huge mistake and i think that is where most of us immediately go. Our weapons are our security.
"We cannot invade inland America, because there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass".

Courage is not the lack of fear, but the willingness to continue despite that fear.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:17 PM   #106
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perhaps they are different questions. However, they are DIRECTLY correlated. "would you take action" is easy to answer. of course. the difficult question is what will make you take action? what action will cause our reaction?

so i suppose, look at it this way. assume "would you" as step 1. everyone here has answered yes. now I want to move the thread a step further (and away from all of the us vs them talk!). now step 2 is the question "when will you". I want to get everyone thinking, really thinking, about what their point of break is; and discussing it. our forefathers took action due to taxes, but we are more tolerant (it would seem) of taxes than ever. where do we, as a people, draw the line?
This is the heart of the issue, Krisko09, thanks. To avoid confrontations between those Americans asked to control & disarm the American citizen public, both groups need to know when to say "NO". Police and Military need to do their jobs when called upon is a disaster; God bless them for that. Private citizens need to act resonsible and be respectful of those doing their best to keep the peace. BUT, (my opinion here) Police and Military may need to be ready to say "NO" when asked to violate our Constitution by acts of confiscation or denal of freedom of travel during or after some kind of national dsiaster. In the same way, private American citizens when they come in contact with Police or Military after a disaster, need to know what requests are reasonable and comply, and what requests are unreasonable and un-Constitutional and also be ready to say "NO".

My hope is that there will be more cooperation between these two groups of "Americans" in a disaster than confrontations. Talking about this now can only help when the time comes.

Thanks for all the discussion. Let not Katrina be our guide.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:29 PM   #107
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Okay....to answer the main thrust of the thread:

New Orleans notwithstanding...that all happened too fast for any real resistance, and people (yes...even the gun-toting-second-ammendment-shouting-tea-party-survivalist-tactical-operator-wannabes) handed over their guns because they were afraid, and not only were they afraid...they had no one to lead them. As for handing in their guns at the shelters...well...the choice is simple: Obey the rules and conditions of coming in, or go away. It really is that simple. Now, as for cops (or ANYONE) disarming people....that was wrong. I mean, wrong at a base level, especially in your own homes.

So, fast forward to right now. Obamalamadip**** crams some total ban down the thoats of congress. I really don't know if people would resist. I would like to hope they would. Let's face it OVER 100 MILLION legal, law abiding gun owners...ONE HUNDRED MILLION. Short of nukes, not even the military could bring firepower like that to bear if the ENTIRE military was unified in following and carrying out such an unconstitutional order.

Hell, even in my county...the sheriff's office nor the town department could muster nearly enough deputies to even make a dentin the citizens of our county if we said "Howdy, and **** you".

Try to wrap your heads around the logistics of it.

Now...Australia and Britain...they GAVE UP their guns. They just flat turned them in when they were told to do so. Why? They have no history of fighting for independence in their cultural memory. Even during a couple of upsets...the monarchy remained intact. SUBJECTS...not free citizens.

When to americans really get pissed? When we are told as a whole we CAN'T do or have something we want.

Some of you will cite the AWB of 1994. Okay...groovy. BUT...they didn't confiscate ANYTHING. It simply restricted the sale of certain items to LE and Military. If you already had it, you still had it, and no one could come and take it on a massive scale. So...again...logistics. During that whole fiasco, not once did I ever check the lower on someone's AR to see if it was pre-ban or not. I never checked to see if they had LE marked hi caps. Not one time. Since I was on the job, I traded out all my non marked mags to friends (at NO profit) and had them give me what new LE mags would cost, and I could have made a TON of money when Glock, Sig, Beretta, and Browning magazines were trading for over a hundred bucks each. LE mags still cost us about $25 for Glock, and $35 for Sig. A lot of guys I knew did the same thing because WE thought the law was for ****, and not a LOCAL matter...it was federal asshattery, and we were NOT federal drones.

So...I don't think it's feasable for "da'gubment" to try to forcefully confiscate our weapons. they may try, but if even a fraction...say 2-3% of 100 MILLION people resist...that will be 2 to 3 MILLION gun owners.

There are approximately 800,000 local, and federal law enforcement personel working right now. That is a fraction a very TINY fraction of the gun owning population, and an even lesser fraction of the population as a whole. Something like .00266% ~or~ 1/500 of a percent of the population. The only authority those officers have is because the citizens allow them to have it...a unified populace would overwhelm LE resources in a matter of minutes or hours.

Think about that....I have.

So, regardless of what "da gub'ment" might TRY to do...I think they are smart enough to know how fasr the line in the sand really is.

I just hope there aren't as many pussies out there in the tactical teddy wannbe clan as I think there are, and would actually stand up.

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #108
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Popgun, every soldier take an oath, to defend the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. a soldier isn't required to obey an unlawful order from a superior officer, regardless of his rank. he can't order a soldier to violate someones Constitutional rights and not expect some will challenge that order. whether a soldier obeys that order depends on his morals and ethics and whether he chooses to defend the Constitution or be a blind lackey for those in charge. my hope and belief is that these fine soldiers will know right from wrong and when ordered to do something unlawful they will challenge it, because they do know what it the right thing to do. i believe there are many fine people who wear a badge and also took an oath, to protect and serve, will know what is right or wrong and most will, i believe do the right thing and uphold the laws that guarantee our rights.

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:47 PM   #109
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For me, some days I can take a lot. Other days not so much. This sounds rather unstable as I write the words. However it is part of the human condition that is part of the equation in most of us. The catalyst that may ignite action in a given situation, may just smolder under different circumstances.

Most of us have families, jobs, homes and a level of comfort. It is inherent for the government that wants total control over it's population to figure out the tipping point of citizen action against the controls the government wants. They have passed many laws in the past ten years for "our safety". Everyone of them chipping at our freedoms. Some of us have taken notice and are pushing back, if only in speech. Those who pass these laws count on us having something to loose if we rebel.

"When people loose everything, they loose it." Gerald Celente

The fiercest enemy is the man who has nothing to loose.

Hopefully, our point is some where between where we are and the qoutes above.

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:32 PM   #110
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Birch, do you pay property/land taxes for your farm?
That pretty much nails it right there. We're serfs, folks. We pay the feudal lord for permission to reside on his land. If you don't agree, try not paying your property taxes and see how long you get to keep "your" land.
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