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Old 05-08-2012, 03:04 PM   #91
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i admire AZL for his courage to defend his profession and position. do i believe he is naive to think that there are no corrupt individuals in his profession? i don't personally know AZL, but he doesn't strike me as naive about anything. do i believe there are corrupt LEO? yes, i do. do i believe there are LEO who do a good job selflessly with out any reward or praise and do it honorably and with professionilism and dignity? yes and i believe these more than outnumber the few who are corrupt or should have thought about another career field. a corrupt or bad LEO who has stepped over the line is brought to the attention of people because of the profession. any profession has people who are corrupt, dishonest and incompetent, but you will never hear about them because they are not newsworthy stories. a LEO who is caught doing wrong is news. my viewpoint is your chances of coming across a dishonest or corrupt LEO is less likely than coming across one who is dedicated to his profession and serving it with honor and dignity.

just some background on my family, i have an uncle who retired from the Texas Highway Patrol with over twenty years of service. i have two half-brothers, one is with the California Highway Patrol, the other is a detective with a small police department in California, i have another uncle who retired from a sheriffs department here in Texas with over thirty years of service and his son, my cousin serves with the same sheriffs department still. i know the dedication they have put into their profession and the sacrifices they all have made over the years, and i know their characters and without a doubt, i know that they have will always do the right thing because they are honorable men who do the job they do not for money or glory, but because they believe in what they are doing makes a difference.
Negative axxe...I KNOW there are scumbags on the job. There are in EVERY profession (look at preachers, and other so-called "sanctified" callings). What I am defending is the profession itself and the vast majority of good, honest officers who shed blood every day, or are willing to shed blood every day for people they don't even know...maybe even YOUR kid. What I am defending against is the GENERALIZATION that "all cops are bad, all cops are dicks, all cops violate civil rights....etc..."
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:10 PM   #92
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AZL, you're a classy guy! honest and unafraid to speak your mind. a person would never have any guesswork on their part as to where they stood with you on any matter!

i too have found that just being honest and giving some courtesy to an LEO has kept me ticket free for over fifteen years. (knock on wood!) but generally i was never over 10 mph the speed limit anyways. most were somewhat wary walking up, very understandable IMO, but once identity was established, they relaxed a bit and usually just a verbal warning or a couple of times a written warning.

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Old 05-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #93
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~snip~ You still haven't honestly told us what YOU do when E-Six asked. What is YOUR area of expertise? Be honest. From what experience do YOU speak from? ~snip~
I would hope, HockaLouis will answer the questions to continue the conversation, otherwise he is trolling the old cop bashing routine. So, I'll again ask the questions......

Hock.....are you trolling, or want a meaningful debate/conversation exchange?

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~snip~ Then you, AZL, kinda go and demonstrate my point... You don't know me or what uniform(s) I do or may have worn, but act out "us vs. them." ~snip~
Hock......So, stand up, what uniforms have you worn, or do you wear? We all know AZL is a retired cop and wore the uniform, he took an oath. I wore military uniforms and semi-law enforcement uniforms....they were olive drab, woodland camo, gray, black, navy blue and tan......I took an oath for each.

His signature isn't aimed at you or me.....unless you just happen to be one of the dirtbags that just have to go to jail the hard way.

So tell us.....don't hide behind the "You don't know me" line, identify yourself so we DO know you and understand why you make the statements you do.
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~snip~ The real issue is how do we, the people, preserve and protect our freedoms with all authorities? Shouldn't take our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor due to rogues or unconstitutional actions...
So what is your solution to what you feel is the "real issue"? This thread is based in a SHTF situation, of which you are free to choose the one of your choice.......how do you feel we should all act to resolve the solution?
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:39 PM   #94
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You have my attention.

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Old 05-08-2012, 03:42 PM   #95
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want my opinion EAGLE SIX ill stand againts anyone who tries to disarm me and take this farm im a regular hillbilly never been in the army marines or anythang but i can trace my kin back to the Civil War SOUTHERN SIDE!! to my grandad in WW2 and my Dad in Veitnam the army is not the same as it once was just like America is not the Same as it once was if u wanna look at what can happen to this country when bunch of idiots who dont like what the PEOPLE are doing take a look at the Civil War were the north came down and burned raped killed many good people it will be happen all over again. i have to agree with HoukaLouis on this one i can see it more more more on this sight it will be Us the Common Folk againts Police Army or whatever they be called at that time as just read your above statements

I've wondered as well. No disrespect to anyone. But I've wondered why only 1% of Americans serve. Those who don't may talk big, but if they aren't willing to defend their rights against foreign enemies, why would they against domestic enemies? Just a thought. Don't read too much in to it, things have been getting heated =S

Serously so i must be a nansy pansy who just likes to talk big because i never served like my ForFathers did?? GET REAL SEE WHAT YOUR SAYIN!
Sure Birchhatchery, I listened to your opinion, but my question wasn't why, or why not.......it was simply who will. I didn't even ask who will not. I respect your hillbilly heritage and your right to your choice. Thank You.

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Old 05-08-2012, 03:44 PM   #96
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Negative axxe...I KNOW there are scumbags on the job. There are in EVERY profession (look at preachers, and other so-called "sanctified" callings). What I am defending is the profession itself and the vast majority of good, honest officers who shed blood every day, or are willing to shed blood every day for people they don't even know...maybe even YOUR kid. What I am defending against is the GENERALIZATION that "all cops are bad, all cops are dicks, all cops violate civil rights....etc..."
I've got a lifelong friend that just retired at 71 from being an officer so he and I have many coversations about his job. He has stated many times the officer he hates the most is the one that "bad rapps" someone. He says these officers make it hard on every one doing the job. So true and it fits with what you posted. If all officers were like my friend you fellows would be considered saints by all!! I'm proud to be able to have him for my friend.

As far as all cops being bad or having bad attitudes. I was pulled over about 2 years ago by a highway patrol. I knew I had done nothing wrong but it seemed he was looking for someone that drove a car like ours. He asked me to get out of the car and have a seat in his. Before getting out I told him I had my pistol on me and that I had a ccw and if he'd like for me to leave it in my own car. I know better than to just get it in my hand and lay it down. I also kelp my hands on the wheel and maintained eye contact with him. He smiled and said it was fine and that I didn't look like a killer, just to leave it where it was at. That same officer pulled me over some years before that, whe he was a rookie, and really had a problem with my 45 laying in the seat next to me. He asked if it was loaded and I told him yes. All legal in my state. I also informed him that I knew the law and was within my rights, which he agreed but argued he did not like the law. We had a pretty good conversation about all of this and I could tell he was disturbed by it all but he acted as he should and so did I. With respect. You can be firm in standing up for yourself but you need to always have respect even if the other party does not. What pleased me though was over the years though is this rookie that didn't like us having guns changed his thinking along the way. I have a huge amount of respect for him for being able to do this.

Respect is the key to anything we do.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:50 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birchhatchery
want my opinion EAGLE SIX ill stand againts anyone who tries to disarm me and take this farm im a regular hillbilly never been in the army marines or anythang but i can trace my kin back to the Civil War SOUTHERN SIDE!! to my grandad in WW2 and my Dad in Veitnam the army is not the same as it once was just like America is not the Same as it once was if u wanna look at what can happen to this country when bunch of idiots who dont like what the PEOPLE are doing take a look at the Civil War were the north came down and burned raped killed many good people it will be happen all over again. i have to agree with HoukaLouis on this one i can see it more more more on this sight it will be Us the Common Folk againts Police Army or whatever they be called at that time as just read your above statements

I've wondered as well. No disrespect to anyone. But I've wondered why only 1% of Americans serve. Those who don't may talk big, but if they aren't willing to defend their rights against foreign enemies, why would they against domestic enemies? Just a thought. Don't read too much in to it, things have been getting heated =S

Serously so i must be a nansy pansy who just likes to talk big because i never served like my ForFathers did?? GET REAL SEE WHAT YOUR SAYIN!
Did i say you were a "nansy pansy"? No. I'm just curious. It happens all the time. People take for granted those who lay down their lives to protect our freedoms. People will stand by and do nothing while their neighbor is brutally beaten on his front porch, or 4 unarmed soldiers are gunned down while eating breakfast. If no one is willing to stand up for what is right in these situations, when will they? So no, im not saying youre all talk. I guess im asking how far does it have to go before you finally take action? Where do YOU draw the line? Is it really going to take brother fighting brother to get you to do something? I just want to know.

And i'm asking EVERYONE this. Where do YOU (generalized) draw the line? What will it take? Martial law? Disarming the population? raising the taxes?

Courage is not the lack of fear, but the willingness to continue despite that fear.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:54 PM   #98
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It seems to me your question has changed from would "you" take action to when will "you" take action.
Two very different questions imo.

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Old 05-08-2012, 03:54 PM   #99
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ARL, if I misread your text as to me blaming cops, I apologize for my sugarless response.

I'm trying to avoid a situation in the future where I'm leading my family to safety after a disaster of some kind and a LEO or Military soldier (just following orders) stops me tries to disarm me and escort me somewhere I may not want to go. History has show that it can happen.

As for pledging to uphold the Constitution, I am ready to say yes. The sad part is that defense of the Constitution is going to be American citizen against American citizen. Cop or soldier (those that choose to just follow orders) against law abiding citizen who chooses to defend their constitutional rights. Right now in my state unconstitutional laws are just a frustrating nuisence, someday they may be life or death if deprived.

I just think it's good that the subject is being discussed now so we all have time to think about it, just in case or when it actually happens.
Thank You Popgun for your pledge.

Taking a pledge to defend our country, freedom and US Constitution doesn't assure everyone taking the pledge will actually defend when the rubber hits the road. It is a mindset expression of our integrity and honor, and I think most who take the pledge with sound mind and will to resolve, will in fact uphold their pledge with it comes to push and shove.

And, I agree with the rest of your post.....

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:03 PM   #100
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AZL, you're a classy guy! honest and unafraid to speak your mind. a person would never have any guesswork on their part as to where they stood with you on any matter!

i too have found that just being honest and giving some courtesy to an LEO has kept me ticket free for over fifteen years. (knock on wood!) but generally i was never over 10 mph the speed limit anyways. most were somewhat wary walking up, very understandable IMO, but once identity was established, they relaxed a bit and usually just a verbal warning or a couple of times a written warning.
See...attitude, no matter who you deal with...determines attitude you get back.

I could go "strictly by the book" and write a ticket for ONE mile an hour over and it could/would stick. I could again, go strictly by the book, and write a ticket for touching the white/yellow line, and it would stick. People don't realize just how many "passes" they get from pfficers every day that they don't even know about, or realize they got. That wasn't MY style, nor the style of the extreme vast majority of cops I ever knew.

Example...a new stop sign went up in a neighborhood one day. I was on mids...again...a guy went through it. He must have noticed it at the last second because he DID try to stop. I lit him up, he was clearly nervous when I got to his window (crappy neighborhood by the way), but not "shifty" nervous...just nervous about having blown the stop sign and getting pulled over. He was a NON douche...I just told him to be careful and have a good night because I knew it was an honest "oops". No one was hurt, no one was endangered because it was late night, and there was no other traffic. No one could say I stomped on his civil rightds...no one could say I was a dick with a badge. Why? I know honest oopses happen...he wasn't a douche...his insurance and registrsation were in order...why hit him with a $200 fine for an "oops" that could have happened to anyone in that neighborhood who didn't know a brand bew stop sign had gone up in a place where they were "conditioned by habit and negative knowledge of signage"?

Sure....some officer with a little peepee or who got picked on in high school might have written him...but not 99.987509875098724% of the officers I worked with.

I have made the statement that the TASER is the greatest thing for LE since slilced bread. "It's like time out for adults". Someone took me to task claiming that I "just wanted to torture people....blah blah blah".

Quite the contrary...I explained that the TASER saved lives and prevented injury because instead of being forced to go hands-on, and possibly have to severely injure a subject (as in Rodney King)...the modern TASER was a god send to officers in non-lethal control. Istead of a broken bone.....BZZZZZZZZZZT....cuffs on, no fuss, no muss...no one gets hurt.

No..the TASER doesn't "hurt"...I know, I have been TASED six times over the years. It simply causes a muscular contraction, and you go down.

BUT...nitwits were unwilling to comprehend THAT and instead put on the blinders, and went with the same tired rhetoric about police brutality etc etc etc...like my sig line.

I said it one night to diffuse a sutuation that very well could have gone bad, while I had a car load of KNOWN GANGBANGERS with a history of violence toward officers pulled over.

Hock got his mangina all in a lather not taking a second to realize that it is just the gallows humor you develop to deal with **** moments. When I said it...they subjects all wound up laughing, and the contact went a whole lot more smoothly.

But, I digress, I guess I am just a dickhead, knuckledragging cop...so accused by a troll who won't even tell us what he does, or where he gained HIS vast wealth of knowledge.
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