What are your indications to go to ‘Plan B’? - Page 3
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:46 PM   #21
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As I have said in the past, Alcohol is, or would be; a good barter commodity. Buy a pint,750ml bottle, or half gallon of cheap whiskey, rum or vodka every month and stock it away. I would also warehouse some purified or distilled water to cut that alcohol with, save the "good stuff" for yourself.

Beer in cans is also a good hedge. It can be traded, durable packaging, and can be a sanitary source of water, although in reasonable amounts.

SHTF, metals are just another metal without a market system that recognizes it as having some value. In the stone age, I doubt there was much demand for Gold or Silver and if a real SHTF situation presents itself world wide, there will be little trade in precious metals.

Clean drinking water, food, clothing, shelter, ammunition, firearms, knives, axes, garden tools, seed and alcohol; take your pick.

My main indicator for plan "B" is if Obama gets re-elected in 2012. I plan to have everything in place and prepared for total collapse of our system of enterprise before 2012.

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Old 07-06-2011, 06:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ineffable View Post
You don't think land ownership will be a thing of the past? Men with guns don't care much about property ownership.
It will be if a government decides that its people can't own land. Kind of like communist China. They can own whats above the dirt but you must lease the dirt from the government with something like 99 year renewable terms. However, if their government wants the land your building is setting on they can at any time boot you off it with no compensation and send you to some sh!tty area in the north with nothing.

Eminet Domain is a possible issue as well. However, Eminet Domain at present can be worked to your advantage at times. Example would be cutting a deal with City or County for zoning or final map fees, just to name a couple, in lieu of cash for land, if per say they need a stretch of your land for a 4 lane blvd.

I don't think that too soon, at least in my remaining lifetime, that the government will take away the right of people to own land. The government kind of likes the revenue property taxes provide for them.

When it comes to armed men and the kind of property we're into, let them have at it, as all our property, except for the property we have our houses on and live in, is some commercial income property and mostly bare undeveloped land. In any case they would be squatters. For our commercial properties the tennants and management company would have to deal with that. For the bare undeveloped lands living there would be a total sh!tty existance as they are large acerage parcells with no water, sewer, power, gas, etc.. on these properties as well as no structures and or foliage for cover. Pretty much flat land with no ammenities until developed and built out.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:11 PM   #23
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It will be if a government decides that its people can't own land. Kind of like communist China.
Have I got some bad news for you.

al·lo·di·al
[uh-loh-dee-uhl]
–adjective
free from the tenurial rights of a feudal overlord.

Allodial title is a concept in some systems of property law. It describes a situation where real property (land, buildings and fixtures) is owned free and clear of any encumbrances, including liens, mortgages and tax obligations. Allodial title is inalienable, in that it cannot be taken by any operation of law for any reason whatsoever.

Early on in this nation's history, land was owned free and clear in an allodial sense. While there are problems with the very term "allodial", in the context of acknowledging that someone truly owns land by way of issuing a title the word is probably acceptable.

Today, only two states, Nevada and Texas, issue limited allodial titles ("limited" and "allodial" should not be used in the same sentence together or it's not really allodial) and it is supposedly a big hassle to get titles for land. I don't believe any other states issue them anymore; the tax revenue is too important to the government.

So anyone who thinks they own land is almost certainly mistaken.

The disgraceful Kelo v. New London, Connecticut SCOTUS ruling established that no one owns land. They merely rent it from the government and if someone comes along who is willing to pay a higher rent (more in taxes), you can legally be pushed off that land.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:58 PM   #24
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So you could say that when we buy a pracel (s) from someone (s) else we are actually paying an "option" or rent for the land to Uncle Sammy for the time it takes to develop it (getting our entitlements and final maps), and selling it to a builder for profit. Actually the person (s) we buy land from is merely transfering their option or rental to Uncly Sammy to us for finacial compensation. All this goes on while the whole time Uncle Sammy truely is ultimate owner of said lands.

This works for us. The end results of our envolvement with the land goes towards newly generated tax revenues for Uncle Sammy. We are doing it on our dime but usually make more than a fair profit for our troubles.

I could be wrong here but I don't think Uncle Sammy is going to put us "out of business" doing this.

Now for the commerecial income properties we own which at present is not that much. Our recapture rate is usually 8 years and we are capped out in 15 years at which time we have 1031 exchanged these developed income properties or cashed out. Cashing out comes with the capitol gains tax penality which thru 2012 is combined 25% here. Possibly a good time to liquidate some capitol assets before the captiol gains tax goes up again. But then what to do with the $$$. The dollar is more than likely to continue to drop in value and I don't forsee anywhere in the near future where the economy is going to allow for any decient return for any investment as secure as land.

Good point you've made there bkt and just thinking out aloud here.

Again as I said in my first reply here maybe we are stupid for having anything to do with land or land development. We are relatively small timers comparatively and we do own and operate our own unrelated to land businesses, but the land thing has provided for us extremely well (better than our own businesses with less daily headache) for 2 generations now and we can't quit. We're addicted to it and the $$$ it casts off for us.

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Old 07-06-2011, 10:02 PM   #25
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We're screwed.

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Old 07-06-2011, 10:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by bkt View Post
al·lo·di·al
[uh-loh-dee-uhl]
–adjective
free from the tenurial rights of a feudal overlord.
Hey, isn't that the kind of "title" the American Indians had back-in-the-day.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:26 PM   #27
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We're screwed.
Yes we could be bkt but I tend to keep some semblance of a postitve outlook or postitve mental attitude for the present and the futrue regarding myself, my ventures, and my family. I don't have it in me to be a "Negative Nellie" nor can I afford to be. Thats not to say that I'm not gravely concerned the direction this country is and has been going but rather, that for me, that I am confident to the point of being cocky that I will adapt and overcome.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:30 PM   #28
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Hey, isn't that the kind of "title" the American Indians had back-in-the-day.
Yeah your right. The native Americans thought it was a silly concept that man could own property. It was more like nature and property owned them as well as everything else that lived. Actually not a bad concept for the time.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:01 AM   #29
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That's... an awesome idea. And I sure wish I woulda bought gold when it was a lot cheaper:/

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Old 07-07-2011, 09:56 AM   #30
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Speaking in generalities, it is too late now to invest in gold, land, silver or lead as far as I see it. I wouldn't invest money anything today if you put a gun to my head. As far as a "trigger point" where the poop starts hitting the fan blades? I think that has already started. The question is when will people notice and how long is it going to last?

I am frequently told "When the SHTF I know where I am going!" (meaning my place) and I tell them outright they will not be welcomed unless they bring enough to support themselves. It hurts me to have to say this but we have enough to support us, not a bunch of refugees, friends or family or not. It's rough but that may be what it comes to.

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