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Old 07-06-2011, 11:44 AM   #11
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It has been pretty clear for some time that the dollar is already dead but it's only just now starting to smell really bad. While I still have my 401k and other IRAs, I also have a store of wealth in metals (gold, silver, copper, brass and lead). So maybe 'Plan B' has been in the works for a while.

China is divesting its holding of U.S. debt as much as it can and it is NOT buying more. It doesn't matter that we're their biggest customer; India and even their own people can make that up easily. But if the U.S. dollar goes (and it will), the rest of the world will be in serious trouble, too. Today, the Federal Reserve is buying our debt and issuing new credit to the Treasury based on that debt. They will keep this up as long as they can.

We are seeing inflation rise steadily but salaries are stagnant for most folks in the private sector. When inflation gets to the point where Bernanke Bucks (Federal Reserve Notes) don't allow people to maintain their standard of living even after they've cut out unnecessary expenses and when social spending cuts are put in place, you will see a lot of hungry, angry people doing desperate, stupid things.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:06 PM   #12
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The threshold has come and gone for us. The "canary in the coal mine" failed it's test and died in the first quarter of 2007 for us. We invest alot in land and large parcels of land in the path of growth. It's a long term thing and not for the faint of heart. For our liquid assets we watch the price of gold amongst other things.

By the first quarter of 2007 we bailed on all our high yeild liquid investments and put our money in low yield principal secure types and off shore accounts.

We may not be making much $$$ now and are bleeding out slowly financially when it comes to our liquidity, but at least we havn't hemmoraged to death like many others have.

Real estate will come around we figure by 2018 or so and we are in good position to hold until 2030 if we have to but thats not going to happen. The economy cycles are about every 8 to 10 years usually, but this down turn will last about 12 or 14 years from the time of it's start. It started in and before 2005 before most knew it was going bad.

Maybe were stupid in the eyes of others but we have been buying land on the cheap for the last few years and filling the perverbial hopper with it for future pay days for us. It's worked for the family since the 1940's and we are just carrying on.

We don't know very much more than land and we do subscribe to the theory touted by Will Rodgers to "Buy land cause' they ain't making any more of it."
You don't think land ownership will be a thing of the past? Men with guns don't care much about property ownership.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:12 PM   #13
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I was looking at $5 a gallon gas as my proverbial canary. I don't have gold or other precious metals, and I believe that they wont hold any true value either. Better to spend all of that now while there is still a perceived value. Come the collapse, a wheel barrow of gold wont buy you a nice AR to defend your home with.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:22 PM   #14
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+1 ineffable. Along with that, I could only buy one ounce of gold, or my ar. Another ounce or enough ammo to become proficient. I'm only 21 and sure I could scrounge to buy gold, but gold's not going to kill game, or defend my life, should the brown stinky stuff hit the rotary impeller. Plus, i bet, should you need to barter, easier to barter food vs shiny stuff.

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Old 07-06-2011, 03:11 PM   #15
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I was looking at $5 a gallon gas as my proverbial canary. I don't have gold or other precious metals, and I believe that they wont hold any true value either. Better to spend all of that now while there is still a perceived value. Come the collapse, a wheel barrow of gold wont buy you a nice AR to defend your home with.
By all means do what works for you.

But gold and silver have never been worth nothing; they hold their value relative to other commodities (like oil, corn, wheat, etc.) very well - much better than any currency.

For the record, I don't expect to barter with bullion coins during a SHTF scenario. I expect to cash in that bullion for whatever new currency emerges after the dollar croaks. Hopefully, that currency won't be fiat currency.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:38 PM   #16
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For the record, I don't expect to barter with bullion coins during a SHTF scenario. I expect to cash in that bullion for whatever new currency emerges after the dollar croaks. Hopefully, that currency won't be fiat currency.
Any new order will use currency that benefits those that govern. It will be fiat currency, because it costs them nothing to make and gets the people to part with things of actual value to get it.

What I was trying to say about gold earlier was that in a true SHTF situation, a can of green beans has more true value than gold. Precious metals will always be valuable if there is ever a civilized government in existence, but you remove that from the equation, gold really is nothing more than pretty rocks.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:40 PM   #17
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+1 ineffable. Along with that, I could only buy one ounce of gold, or my ar. Another ounce or enough ammo to become proficient. I'm only 21 and sure I could scrounge to buy gold, but gold's not going to kill game, or defend my life, should the brown stinky stuff hit the rotary impeller. Plus, i bet, should you need to barter, easier to barter food vs shiny stuff.

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Exactly what I was trying to say. BKT is never really wrong about anything, he just sees things from a different angle.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:52 PM   #18
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:30 PM   #19
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Any new order will use currency that benefits those that govern. It will be fiat currency, because it costs them nothing to make and gets the people to part with things of actual value to get it.
I'm worried you're right about that. If so, it'll just be a matter of time before that new currency collapses, too. History shows that every fiat currency eventually fails.

No one knows what's on the far side of economic collapse. Will we rebuild the U.S. as it was originally founded? Or will we just devolve into some backward serfdom? It's hard to say.

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What I was trying to say about gold earlier was that in a true SHTF situation, a can of green beans has more true value than gold. Precious metals will always be valuable if there is ever a civilized government in existence, but you remove that from the equation, gold really is nothing more than pretty rocks.
Agreed. Subsistence survival takes precedence over hoarding shiny objects. When things return to normal - and they will in time - the metal may be a better store of wealth than a 401k.

Along with metals, ammo, and firearms I also have a big store of food and other consumables, clothes, medical supplies, etc. And I'm brewing wine, mead and beer (which make great barter items!) and I'm toying with growing my own tobacco.

Like I've said in other threads, go from room to room in your house and write a list of things you would miss if you couldn't get any more of them (toilet paper, soap, deodorant, toothpaste, paper towels, trash bags...you get the idea) and start storing those items. If nothing ever goes wrong, you're going to use them over time anyway. If something goes badly wrong you'll be a lot more comfortable than if you had to do without them.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:35 PM   #20
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+1 ineffable. Along with that, I could only buy one ounce of gold, or my ar. Another ounce or enough ammo to become proficient. I'm only 21 and sure I could scrounge to buy gold, but gold's not going to kill game, or defend my life, should the brown stinky stuff hit the rotary impeller. Plus, i bet, should you need to barter, easier to barter food vs shiny stuff.

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You're on the right track. Get what you will need to survive and remain reasonably comfortable first. If you have money left over after that and you want an alternative store of wealth, metal might be something to consider.

Incidentally, silver is far cheaper than gold and it is still very undervalued. Given the price ratio of gold to silver over literally thousands of years, about 16 ounces of silver has the same value as one ounce of gold. If you look at the dollar values today ($1530.00/ounce and $36.12/ounce), either gold would have to drop to $577/ounce - and it won't because there is such high demand - or silver would have to rise to $95/ounce to restore that 1:16 ratio. You might be able to afford an ounce or two of silver each pay period and still afford your necessities. Just something to think about...
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