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Old 01-11-2014, 05:39 AM   #131
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You can buy AR500 steel plates on Ebay for much less than that schmuck spent on his homebuilt horrors.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Level-iii-AR500-Steel-rifle-plates-armor-/261367644111
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:18 AM   #132
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I think VikingDad nailed it pretty much straight on. After reading about FEMA, I have to say that what they are supposed to do SOUNDS good. Help during natural disasters, terrorist attacks, etc. But nothing I read about how they did is good. The words "criticism", and "criticize" come up EVEY time. And I would have to say that being under the umbrella of DHS probably would let them get away with anything just short of atrocities. I'm curious what the mechanism is, though. Do they have actual solders? Guys with armored trucks, and guns, etc.? Or do they rely on another branch of DHS for that?
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:20 PM   #133
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FEMA does whatever they want. They normally use the military. Sometimes they are the military. Attach a couple of community organizers to a national guard or a coast guard unit, and there's FEMA.

Local law enforcement when SHTF has the same goal that you do. Survive, find family again, rebuild what's left. We do NOT look at all "Joe Citizens" the same. I can't tell you how many times at shelters or distribution points somebody asked me "hey do you care if I'm carrying concealed? Or do I need to put my stuff in the truck."

My answer: "only if you start shooting at me."

The gun grab thing everybody talks about during Katrina was isolated. And it led to the Louisiana constitution's firearms amendment being rewritten which needed to happen anyway.

In theory, local state and federal agencies are supposed to work together when SHTF. In reality, the Feds take everything and stockpile it and wait for orders. The state promises everybody they're gonna get them help and argues with the Feds about where the resources need to go, while the Feds sit on their hands or worse, start snatching everything they can find coming into the affected zone and sending it to their designated locations to sit there and do nothing.

And local law enforcement gets little to nothing and is stuck double shifted for days, grabbing whatever resources it's begrudging uncle or grandpa will give it.

Want to know what dealing with FEMA is like? Picture Obama as a federal employee on the bottom of the food chain suddenly given the power to order around to national guardsmen to acquire supplies and set up an efficient distribution network. Scary? Well that's EXACTLY how it works.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:59 PM   #134
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Want to know what dealing with FEMA is like? Picture Obama as a federal employee on the bottom of the food chain suddenly given the power to order around to national guardsmen to acquire supplies and set up an efficient distribution network. Scary? Well that's EXACTLY how it works.
Yes it is. Oh Lord, we are ALL screwed…..
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:01 PM   #135
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FEMA does whatever they want. They normally use the military. Sometimes they are the military. Attach a couple of community organizers to a national guard or a coast guard unit, and there's FEMA.

Local law enforcement when SHTF has the same goal that you do. Survive, find family again, rebuild what's left. We do NOT look at all "Joe Citizens" the same. I can't tell you how many times at shelters or distribution points somebody asked me "hey do you care if I'm carrying concealed? Or do I need to put my stuff in the truck."

My answer: "only if you start shooting at me."

The gun grab thing everybody talks about during Katrina was isolated. And it led to the Louisiana constitution's firearms amendment being rewritten which needed to happen anyway.

In theory, local state and federal agencies are supposed to work together when SHTF. In reality, the Feds take everything and stockpile it and wait for orders. The state promises everybody they're gonna get them help and argues with the Feds about where the resources need to go, while the Feds sit on their hands or worse, start snatching everything they can find coming into the affected zone and sending it to their designated locations to sit there and do nothing.

And local law enforcement gets little to nothing and is stuck double shifted for days, grabbing whatever resources it's begrudging uncle or grandpa will give it.

Want to know what dealing with FEMA is like? Picture Obama as a federal employee on the bottom of the food chain suddenly given the power to order around to national guardsmen to acquire supplies and set up an efficient distribution network. Scary? Well that's EXACTLY how it works.
I see what you are saying but I hope you understand what i am trying to say as well.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:23 PM   #136
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I see what you are saying but I hope you understand what i am trying to say as well.
Yes, that you see it all as one big system and it's basically "us vs them." A sentiment that the Feds and even state sometimes do share, though it's usually more like "us controlling them." But one that local law enforcement usually has no interest in. We run call to call, work search and rescue, and back each other up when idiots start taking potshots from windows and rooftops or busting out windows of businesses and running up the street with TVs.

We have absolutely ZERO interest in what the survivalist minding his own business and taking care of his family does as long as it doesn't involve the above activities. (Other than search and rescue or providing us some help when stuff gets crazy. That we appreciate.)
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Old 01-12-2014, 12:52 AM   #137
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Yes, that you see it all as one big system and it's basically "us vs them." A sentiment that the Feds and even state sometimes do share, though it's usually more like "us controlling them." But one that local law enforcement usually has no interest in. We run call to call, work search and rescue, and back each other up when idiots start taking potshots from windows and rooftops or busting out windows of businesses and running up the street with TVs.

We have absolutely ZERO interest in what the survivalist minding his own business and taking care of his family does as long as it doesn't involve the above activities. (Other than search and rescue or providing us some help when stuff gets crazy. That we appreciate.)
Close but not quite. I see it as the authorities are difficult for us to tell apart. Much like it is difficult for you, as a LEO, to determine who is a bad guy and who is a good guy based solely on the cues you get when walking up to a car on a stop (or patrolling a neighborhood after a hurricane). Some grandmother could pull a gun and start blazing away at you.

We are not all that different, you and I. I have to presume that a LEO approaching me on the street is doing so because he is suspicious of my intention, or that he may think I am up to no good (I rarely get pulled over for any reason).

Judging from your posts you approach a stop the same way (which is quite smart I might add).

Whether it is an authority figure approaching me, or you approaching a citizen, we both have reason to be suspicious of the contact until it is proven there is no reason to be. The problem is that authorities (including local LEOs) have the ability to use armed force when LACs cannot respond accordingly (or at least it would be suicidal to do so in most cases).

You keep saying that local LEOs are there to help, particularly in regard to the Katrina response. History has recorded otherwise in some isolated cases and that is what people like me hear the most of.

From Wiki:
Quote:
Five former police officers have pleaded guilty to charges connected to the Danziger Bridge shootings in the aftermath of the hurricane. Six other former or current officers appeared in court in June 2011. Two unarmed civilians were killed and four others seriously wounded when police opened fire on people attempting to cross the bridge.
I am not sure how deadly force can be justified in the above example. Surely there could have been a better approach used without fatalities.
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:43 AM   #138
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I can't talk about that incident. But there was a lot of bullcrap involved. It wasn't as simple as the story that got out makes it seem.

In the instance of Katrina as a broad event I generally didn't find it hard to tell the difference between the people who wanted to hurt us and the people just trying to survive.

One shot at us or ran away. The others were happy to see us and asked for our help. Except for the grossness at the New Orleans superdome. But I was far away from there until after most of that insanity was settling down. There were places where the line of acceptable conduct was blurred (people stealing food from flooded out or already trashed grocery stores) but that doesn't really apply to someone who is a survivalist and we left them alone for the most part.

I would assume none of that would apply to a survivalist. My goal is to stay as far the hell away from those areas as possible. A survivalist should have self sufficient setup like I have. Enough to feed my family and be comfortable. Fairly portable.

Enough ammo to defend myself (as well as one person can.) And a rendezvous planned for an extended family group with similar setups so that we can watch out for each other.

There were tons of people like that who showed up at distribution points to grab extra MREs, tarps for their roofs etc. The only time we interacted with them other than that was when we were responding to somebody who was messing with them. And that was rare.

We can agree to disagree if you like. But the issue your describing wasn't one that any of the guys I was with were concerned with. Either way I don't want to talk about it anymore. :-( Not my favorite topic. Nasty memories and all.
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:51 AM   #139
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I can't talk about that incident. But there was a lot of bullcrap involved. It wasn't as simple as the story that got out makes it seem.

We can agree to disagree if you like. But I don't want to talk about it anymore. :-( Not my favorite topic. Nasty memories and all.
Keeping you parting statement in mind, can you see how a person like me (or any one of many here who are not LEOs) might get the take-away impression that we may not be able to trust authorities?
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:14 AM   #140
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Keeping you parting statement in mind, can you see how a person like me (or any one of many here who are not LEOs) might get the take-away impression that we may not be able to trust authorities?
Yep. I get it, in fact I deal with it every day. I'm just doing what I can to instill trust in the people who do my job. The few bad apples in the media and out acting like meter maids make the barrel look bad.
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