Telling Freindlys From Not-So-Freindlys If SHTF? - Page 3
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Discussion Forums > Survival & Sustenance Living Forum > Telling Freindlys From Not-So-Freindlys If SHTF?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-16-2011, 03:22 PM   #21
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 659
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Here is the problem: Every individual is either out to take advantage of others, or fears being taken advantage of (including being killed). Thus, everyone you meet will either be prepared to kill you, or thinks you are prepared to kill him. Those are really sensitive situations so it would really be best to avoid contact if at all possible.


If you need to make contact, send one guy who is carrying openly but not at the ready, like with a holstered pistol or a back-slung rifle. I say this because I'd personally be weary of a random guy walking up out of nowhere who appeared to be unarmed, as opposed to a guy who was obviously armed but intentionally being non-threatening. I'd think the former was trying to distract me or something, honestly. Of course, if the guys immediately draw down on him, he should know to hit the deck and you should already be prepared to light them up from a better position.

But again, if at all possible it would be best to avoid contact. Most people don't want to hurt anyone, but in stressful times I'd imagine things can get hairy in a hurry, even if unintentionally.

__________________
Lindenwood is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2011, 04:09 PM   #22
bkt
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 6,973
Liked 1305 Times on 664 Posts
Likes Given: 151

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindenwood View Post
Here is the problem: Every individual is either out to take advantage of others, or fears being taken advantage of (including being killed). Thus, everyone you meet will either be prepared to kill you, or thinks you are prepared to kill him. Those are really sensitive situations so it would really be best to avoid contact if at all possible.


If you need to make contact, send one guy who is carrying openly but not at the ready, like with a holstered pistol or a back-slung rifle. I say this because I'd personally be weary of a random guy walking up out of nowhere who appeared to be unarmed, as opposed to a guy who was obviously armed but intentionally being non-threatening. I'd think the former was trying to distract me or something, honestly. Of course, if the guys immediately draw down on him, he should know to hit the deck and you should already be prepared to light them up from a better position.

But again, if at all possible it would be best to avoid contact. Most people don't want to hurt anyone, but in stressful times I'd imagine things can get hairy in a hurry, even if unintentionally.
That all depends on the situation. If you're counting only on a Zombie Apocalypse, then fine. But there are many scenarios to consider including a partial breakdown involving shortages or high inflation that could lead people to barter with each other on a reasonably friendly level.

I expect the looters will mostly be killed off within a few weeks if it comes to that.
__________________
bkt is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2011, 06:29 PM   #23
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 659
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

I guess I'm assuming a scenario in which a family is camping up in the mountains and enough people have already been killed off that those same mountains aren't swarming with tens of thousands of other refugees :P . Yeah, in times of slow downward spiral, more people will come together than not. But in a really extreme scenario as described above, the only people who could survive any length of time beyond the initial event (NBC attacks, extreme pandemics, or zombies) would be people with the knowledge, fortitude, and tools to take care of business. Knowing that, you'd know everyone you meet up with has survived by either taking what they need by force, or by fending off those who would.

__________________
Lindenwood is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 01:02 PM   #24
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ArizonaLawman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florence,AZ
Posts: 463
Liked 3 Times on 1 Posts

Default

That's a tough one. After all...anyone who isn't willing at some point to use other people as "resupply depots" doesn't want to feed his family bad enough.

I figure that by the time my family has run out of supplies, most everyone else will be dead anyway, but you have to think about that eventuality.

So, I would HAVE to assume everyone I see is hostile. I am not going to gun them down without a damned good reason, but neither will I embrace them and get all lovey dovey. I will evade, avoid, and escape whenever it is feasible.

22 years as a cop, I have a pretty good scumbag detector. I am not especially worried about missing clues and subtleties when it comes to douchebag identification.

__________________
ArizonaLawman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 01:38 PM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
usmcprofessional's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 249
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman View Post
That's a tough one. After all...anyone who isn't willing at some point to use other people as "resupply depots" doesn't want to feed his family bad enough.
man im glad you said it. i say stuff like that and i get dumped on "what you some sort of killer?!" ...n-no, but dosent anyone here play Fallout?
__________________

If Sam Colt made men equal, then John Moses Browning made some men better than others.

Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with a "4."

usmcprofessional is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 01:56 PM   #26
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
knfxda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 692
Liked 19 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman View Post
That's a tough one. After all...anyone who isn't willing at some point to use other people as "resupply depots" doesn't want to feed his family bad enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcprofessional View Post
man im glad you said it. i say stuff like that and i get dumped on "what you some sort of killer?!" ...n-no, but dosent anyone here play Fallout?
Then what separates you from the "bad" guys?

Why is it that the guy coming to use you as a resupply depot is "bad", yet when you do it for yourself, you're still "good"?

Stealing or compromising yourself or your beliefs to feed your family is one thing. Killing someone else to maintain yourself is another.

Now, anyone on the offensive against me that falls is absolutely fair game.

__________________
knfxda is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 07:30 PM   #27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ArizonaLawman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florence,AZ
Posts: 463
Liked 3 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by knfxda View Post
Then what separates you from the "bad" guys?

Why is it that the guy coming to use you as a resupply depot is "bad", yet when you do it for yourself, you're still "good"?

Stealing or compromising yourself or your beliefs to feed your family is one thing. Killing someone else to maintain yourself is another.

Now, anyone on the offensive against me that falls is absolutely fair game.

I won't engage in a long debate about good or bad or morality versus lack of morality. My whole post pretty much said it all...

That's a tough one. After all...anyone who isn't willing at some point to use other people as "resupply depots" doesn't want to feed his family bad enough.

I figure that by the time my family has run out of supplies, most everyone else will be dead anyway, but you have to think about that eventuality.
So, I would HAVE to assume everyone I see is hostile. I am not going to gun them down without a damned good reason, but neither will I embrace them and get all lovey dovey. I will evade, avoid, and escape whenever it is feasible.
22 years as a cop, I have a pretty good scumbag detector. I am not especially worried about missing clues and subtleties when it comes to douchebag identification.

************************************************** ********

We have prepared. We have prepared pretty well. We are supplied for a long bug-in, and for a long bug out if neccessary. I figure that by the time I would NEED to resupply...most of the sheep will already be dead or people will start banding back together, at least in small community sized groups and getting things organized. I have the luxury of having mormon neighbors with whom I am on very very good terms. If you aren't aware, LDS is a society with a LONG tradition of being very well supplied in SHTF scenarios. Our local Wal Mart even has an LDS oriented long-term food storage department. We also have LDS food stores where my wife and I shop for long-term food stuffs.

The predators will be roaming and I figure it is a reality that I will already have taken a toll on any in our immediate area(my wife is a currently serving officer, and someone with whom I would go through a door with any time), so it isn't ALL up to me to be the defender, I have a partner who is well trained too. We have friends whom we trust who will try to bug in with us. They also have supplies and can contribute to our overall situation.

I have NO problem preying on the predators. None whatsoever. Not one ounce of moral trepidation about using "them" for whatever sustenance can be gained from them. If you think that identifying them will be a problem...wait until it happens. They will stick out like the proverbial sore thumbs. They will be the FIRST to show their hand and will travel in packs just as they do now in urban centers. They will learn a whole new world of hurt when they venture out into the country though...this is MY territory. This is the kind of place where I was raised, where I know my desert home for MILES around. I know where water can be found. I know where functioning hand-pumps are in some of the older mine claims. Follow ME into MY desert or onto MY land...you are a corpse. That isn't braggadocio or machismo...it is a fact. Any semi-serious hunter will testify to that fact. city pukes stumble around in nature like toddlers on marbles. A country boy will smell 'em and hear 'em LONG before he is seen or heard himself.

How many of these turds have you ever seen in a "rugged environment"? They don't know the first thing about it. They may be "street tough", but street tough means exactly nothing when some country boy with a .308 hunting rifle turns their head into a fine frothy mist from 200 yards.

As I mentioned in my original post...I would do ALL I could to evade, avoid, and escape. It is strategically MOST sound to survive by not being forced to fight. Let the turds and the sheep go at it first, before the prepared person ever has to get into a scrape...let the odds be thinned in our favor. Choose the time and place of the battle. In the mean time....be a darned ghost.

But with all that said...good or bad isn't really going to matter in a total breakdown. When it comes right down to it, it will be "survivor or non-survivor". I will do all I can to avoid the fracas until I have to join it. I have no reason to pillage for a LONG LONG time. Hopefully until things are settled down or as I said before...most people are already dead. Staying clean and healthy is a key to not dying of whatever cooties will be around for the first months or year, so it just makes sense to stay isolated and let nature, lack of preparedness, and stupidity do your killing for you.

I can say with a pretty fair degree of certainty that if things get SO bad that nothing is moving and nothing is re-organizing attitudes will revert back to primal survival mode anyway. Good or bad, right or wrong won't even exist as anything but a distant and fading memory. Then it won't matter much any more. You're not really living then. You're just waiting to die, and how long it will be is just a matter of marking time. But in that time...will you allow your children to starve if you can feed them BY ANY MEANS NECCESSARY? I would assert that the difference between good and evil in those times will be "how long it took you to become a predator".

Flame away if you like. It's okay. I can handle it. As I said...my Plan A is to bug in and avoid contact. Plan B is to bug out and avoid contact. Win the fight by not fighting unless I absolutely have to. Hide with pride. Be a ghost.
__________________
ArizonaLawman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 11:01 PM   #28
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
usmcprofessional's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 249
Default

dont sweat it law man. once you mention that you will do what you have to do to survive, your automatically labeled. i understand exactly what you mean. i have a wife and 2 year old that i would watch the entire world burn rather than have them go a day without water or food. you cant explain your feelings to those that hold on to the notion that theres always another way.

if the time comes that its really that aweful out in the world, there will be no more morals. why the hell should i hold on to them.

__________________

If Sam Colt made men equal, then John Moses Browning made some men better than others.

Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with a "4."

usmcprofessional is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 11:06 PM   #29
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CA357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 19,871
Liked 1175 Times on 510 Posts
Likes Given: 2978

Default

I believe that we're pretty much realists here and if the SHTF, most theories will go out the window. A plan never survives contact with the enemy, right?

The idea here is to put a nice PC face on things so that when the feds and anti-gunners peek in we don't look like deranged madmen.

__________________
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”Samuel Adams
CA357 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 02:16 AM   #30
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
knfxda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 692
Liked 19 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Wasn't flaming at all. Maybe I just read too much into the "to use other people as "resupply depots"" statement. I read that to mean to go after other people that were bugged-in.

Preying on the predators was not what I was talking about. That's just good practice!

__________________
knfxda is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
shtf sgtdeath66 Survival & Sustenance Living Forum 67 05-26-2012 03:25 PM
When SHTF...HP vs. FMJ CHLChris General Handgun Discussion 20 11-14-2010 11:38 PM
When the SHTF how much is enough... supergus Survival & Sustenance Living Forum 56 08-27-2010 01:27 AM
Telling the truth BudW The Club House 7 04-29-2009 02:13 AM