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Old 12-30-2008, 08:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt g View Post
I was taught that if only dicey closure methods are available, you leave the wound open so blowflies can lay their eggs. The maggots will eat the necrotic flesh and stave off gangrene.

Have you considered Krazy Glue?
While I know what you say is true, given the choice between maggots and a stapler used by a Somalian IV drug using needle sharing bisexual tranny, and rusty to boot, I think I'm rolling with the stapler. Maggots, EEWWWW!
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Old 01-01-2009, 06:14 AM   #32
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Think about weight and availability. I would rather have a sewing kit than a staple gun. Lighter weight and more flexible to use too. You can carry like 6 sewing kits in the same amount of room that the staple gun and staples need.

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Old 01-05-2009, 06:35 AM   #33
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I get the feeling NONE of you have had to stitch anyone up before,
Especially not yourselves!
------------------------------------------

In combat, you don't have time to do surgery.
You pack off the wound, and you send the casualty to the rear,
OR,
You hand him over to the 'Enemy' for medical treatment.

If any of you had emergency medical field treatment, you would know what a 'Towel Clamp' is and how to use it to close serious wounds temporarily so the Casualty can be evacuated...

OR,
If you are working in a special ops unit, you would know towel clamps are what we use to keep the wound closed until first aid can be rendered properly.
This is also a good way to pull the skin closed for sutures.



Once you have stuck 5 or 10 of these to yourself to hold some horrendous wound closed long enough to be extricated, you will know what I'm talking about...
------------------------------------------

Consider some of the animal and veterinary supply houses for your hardware and supplies.
Cheaper, sterile is sterile, and not as pretty, but if you can't go to the hospital, that won't matter to you.
-----------------------------------------------

Try a search for 'SKIN STAPLER' you will find them in disposable sterile packs of 6 each for about $100 to $200.
Or for as little as $7 or $8 each....

http://www.medexsupply.com/wound-care-skin-staplers-removers-x_cp-21-171.htm
http://www.suturedirect.com/skinstaplers.html
http://www.medcompare.com/quickpicks.asp?qpid=173
http://www.autosuture.com/autosuture/pageBuilder.aspx?topicID=30613&breadcrumbs=0:63659 ,39868:0
http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/healthcare/professional/node_GSMJ94CHG7be/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_F9G1189154ge/gvel_29FKGVD9QMgl/theme_us_professional_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html

Here is a first aid kit for dogs that includes a skin stapler...
http://www.outdoorsafety.net/?gclid=CJDuyeXp9pcCFQMnGgodohebDg

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Old 01-05-2009, 02:53 PM   #34
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I get the feeling NONE of you have had to stitch anyone up before,
Especially not yourselves!

REALLY??? Well, I know enough NOT to use a NARROW TIPPED CLAMP to help stop bleeding unless you have no other option. And, yes, I have done needle work on myself more than once. I've also gone on sneak and peek missions for a number of days which is why I stress saving weight and going with a sewing kit instead of a bulky, heavier stapler. When your main concerns have got to be ammo, food and water you WILL do everything to save even an ounce or two of weight. The key is survival, not weight and luxury.

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Old 01-05-2009, 03:14 PM   #35
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Go with the sewing kits. They weigh less and take up less space.

DO NOT use point-tipped clamps to try and close a wound. If you do, you'll notice a funny thing happening. The clamps will puncture the sides of the wound you are trying to close, and will be utterly useless. You do not want to find this out when you are proceeding to bleed out like a small fire hose. Sometimes you literally have seconds to stop major bleeding. That is not the time to be fiddling around with little clamps. In the cases of minor self-repair work, you still would be adding to the problem as you create more puncture wounds with the clamps while you try to get it to work right.

Another valuable addition would be Israeli bandages. I find them pretty handy myself and very easy for one person to use. To each their own, though.

When it comes to field triage remember the acronym K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

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Old 01-05-2009, 06:22 PM   #36
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So I guess this argument still isn't settled???

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Old 01-05-2009, 07:03 PM   #37
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You guys seemed to have glazed over my suggestion of Krazy Glue. Cyanoacrylates were designed as expedient sutures for use under fire. They were abandoned by the military because medics were haveing to be evac'ed with the casualties because they were gluing themselves to them.

Cyanoacrylates are still being used in emergency rooms and by paramedics today. The "medical" grade glues go by the names VetBond, LiquiVet, Indermil, Histoacryl, Dermabond, Nexaband, Traumaseal and SuperBonder. However, a tube of Krazy Glue that can be picked up at the Dollar Store will serve the same purpose as the more expensive "medical" grade glues. The only difference between the different glues is the compound used to polymerize the monomers. Non "medical" grade stuff can also cause minor skin irritation, but isn't bleeding to death a little worse than some dermatitis?

A neat added benefit to Krazy Glue is that it's a field expedient fire starter. If you quickly squeeze a tube of it onto some dry cotton, it bursts into flames.

Every 1st aid kit that I have outside the home have a half dozen tubes of Krazy Glue in it.

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Old 01-05-2009, 08:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
I get the feeling NONE of you have had to stitch anyone up before,
Especially not yourselves!
And you have? Because it sure doesn't seem that way...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
In combat, you don't have time to do surgery.
You pack off the wound, and you send the casualty to the rear,
OR,
You hand him over to the 'Enemy' for medical treatment.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
If any of you had emergency medical field treatment, you would know what a 'Towel Clamp' is and how to use it to close serious wounds temporarily so the Casualty can be evacuated...
I do have "emergency medical field treatment" training. We did not use clamps of any sort. We used pressure dressings (Israeli or H-Bandages) and tourniquets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
OR,
If you are working in a special ops unit, you would know towel clamps are what we use to keep the wound closed until first aid can be rendered properly.
While this is second hand information, my source is very reliable. At a conference of Special Forces Medics last year, all of the training and discussion regarding the stopping of bleeding from extremities was concerned with the use of pressure dressings and tourniquets. The major point of discussion was actually if you should pack wounds with gauze or not. Never was mentioned anything about clamps.

But since you are claiming to be in a Special Forces unit, I've got to ask, which one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
This is also a good way to pull the skin closed for sutures.



Once you have stuck 5 or 10 of these to yourself to hold some horrendous wound closed long enough to be extricated, you will know what I'm talking about...
Can you reference any medical professional or even a training manual that suggests using those for emergency bleeding control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
Consider some of the animal and veterinary supply houses for your hardware and supplies.
Cheaper, sterile is sterile, and not as pretty, but if you can't go to the hospital, that won't matter to you.
The first bit of good information that you have ever posted on this site...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT-MILLER View Post
Another valuable addition would be Israeli bandages. I find them pretty handy myself and very easy for one person to use. To each their own, though.
Izzy bandages and tourniquets are the only things I have in my kits to control serious bleeding. Sutures and staples are something best left to emergency room work (read: at a base camp).

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt g View Post
You guys seemed to have glazed over my suggestion of Krazy Glue. Cyanoacrylates were designed as expedient sutures for use under fire. They were abandoned by the military because medics were haveing to be evac'ed with the casualties because they were gluing themselves to them.

Cyanoacrylates are still being used in emergency rooms and by paramedics today. The "medical" grade glues go by the names VetBond, LiquiVet, Indermil, Histoacryl, Dermabond, Nexaband, Traumaseal and SuperBonder. However, a tube of Krazy Glue that can be picked up at the Dollar Store will serve the same purpose as the more expensive "medical" grade glues. The only difference between the different glues is the compound used to polymerize the monomers. Non "medical" grade stuff can also cause minor skin irritation, but isn't bleeding to death a little worse than some dermatitis?

A neat added benefit to Krazy Glue is that it's a field expedient fire starter. If you quickly squeeze a tube of it onto some dry cotton, it bursts into flames.

Every 1st aid kit that I have outside the home have a half dozen tubes of Krazy Glue in it.
I did seem to miss it, I'm sorry.

The downfall of Krazy Glue is it uses a chemical burn to close the wound. It will hurt one small surface wounds. It can cause tremendous shock to a person on larger cuts...
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
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The downfall of Krazy Glue is it uses a chemical burn to close the wound. It will hurt one small surface wounds. It can cause tremendous shock to a person on larger cuts...
Cyanoacrylates use monomer to polymer bonds to bond items. This reaction happens in the presence of water. I've used dime store Krazy Glue to patch myself up on more than one occasion and while it does sting a little, it's pretty minor, even on deeper cuts.

In its liquid form, cyanoacrylate consists of monomers of cyanoacrylate molecules. Methyl-2-cyanoacrylate (CH2=C(CN)COOCH3 or C5H5NO2) has a molecular weight equal to 111.1, a flashpoint of 79 °C, and 1.1 times the density of water. Ethyl-2-cyanoacrylate (C6H7NO2) has a molecular weight equal to 125 and a flashpoint of >75°C. To facilitate easy handling, adhesives made with cyanoacrylate are usually formulated so that the glue is more viscous and gel-like.

Generally, cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin which rapidly polymerises in the presence of water (specifically hydroxide ions), forming long, strong chains, joining the bonded surfaces together. Because the presence of moisture causes the glue to set, exposure to moisture in the air can cause a tube or bottle of glue to become unusable over time. To prevent an opened container of glue from setting before use, it must be stored in an airtight jar or bottle with a package of silica gel.
Polymerization of methyl-2-cyanoacrylate



Another important trait is that cyanoacrylate sets quickly, often in less than a minute. A normal bond reaches full strength in two hours and is waterproof. Accelerators such as toluidine trigger setting in two or three seconds, with some loss of strength.

Acetone, which is commonly found in nail polish remover, is a widely available solvent capable of softening cured cyanoacrylate. Nitromethane is also an excellent solvent. Methylene chloride is the most effective solvent, but is toxic. Gamma-butyrolactone is also effective at removing cured cyanoacrylate, and has low toxicity.


I know, I know, Wikipedia isn't known for being constantly accurate with info, but this is indeed how cyanoacrylates bond.

There are commercially available benzo and lido preparations that are more than effective to help take the sting out. Many of the FDA approved cyanoacrylates have these in the preparation already. In the most dire of situations, Oil of Cloves could be used, but, due to possible toxicity, should only be used if rapid evacuation to a medical facility is readily available.

You're absolutely correct in your rebuttal to AR Hammer though. Direct pressure and tourniquets are the current first aid doctrine in most cases. Last I had heard (it has been a few years) packing was frowned upon.
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:05 PM   #40
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Default I can't find any online.

I have done a quick search and can locate two types of removers, but no staple guns, or the staples. Anyone know price or supplier?

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