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Old 07-28-2013, 09:34 PM   #51
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The people who protested the war had this right given to them. That right was bonded by the "Blood" of American Servicemen. The protesters right or wrong brought unbearable pain to the parents and friends who lost sons and friends in that war.
Not all of the protestors did this.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:52 AM   #52
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Not all of the protestors did this.
I've been spat on for being a vet. I've been accosted for the yellow ribbon that used to be on my car (my ex stole it, and I haven't replaced it...yet). I've had people tell me that my friends deserved to die. Many people have told me that they think the war we're in is wrong, and I tell them I agree with them. They've asked me why I participated when I felt it was wrong (I really don't have a great answer to that, other than a death wish I had when I enlisted).

None of this causes me pain on behalf of my friends who are dead, or their families. None of it hurts my heart because people like me have fought in times past (specifically revolutionary war up to WWII) to give them the liberty to verbally abuse vets on the street (and I don't see our current war being about the American way of life, not anymore)

When people get in my face and berate me for what some call an illegal war, an unjust war, an oil war, call me baby killer, call me a murderer... it's just one more ass hole talking ****. Nothing worth killing them for. Especially nothing worth killing nearby spectators or hippies for. Even if they want to demolish their own school or place of work over it.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:19 AM   #53
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I've been spat on for being a vet. I've been accosted for the yellow ribbon that used to be on my car (my ex stole it, and I haven't replaced it...yet). I've had people tell me that my friends deserved to die. Many people have told me that they think the war we're in is wrong, and I tell them I agree with them. They've asked me why I participated when I felt it was wrong (I really don't have a great answer to that, other than a death wish I had when I enlisted).

None of this causes me pain on behalf of my friends who are dead, or their families. None of it hurts my heart because people like me have fought in times past (specifically revolutionary war up to WWII) to give them the liberty to verbally abuse vets on the street (and I don't see our current war being about the American way of life, not anymore)

When people get in my face and berate me for what some call an illegal war, an unjust war, an oil war, call me baby killer, call me a murderer... it's just one more ass hole talking ****. Nothing worth killing them for. Especially nothing worth killing nearby spectators or hippies for. Even if they want to demolish their own school or place of work over it.
Trip, my respect for you just went up several notches and it was already pretty high.

I have never blamed our troops for any of the wars they have fought in. In the beginning I was supportive of the Iraq war, back when we did not know that it was based on bad intelligence, or more accurately a lack of good intelligence. But then when it became clear that this was the case the war continued to escalate. And we went into Afghanistan and we expected to gain what exactly? Then public support for the wars started to plummet. And Obama was elected on the promise to pull our troops out- but he didn't. Not really. (No, I did not and have not ever voted for Obama)

The students who died at Kent State did not deserve to die that way, and our troops do not deserve to be treated in the hateful way that you have been treated. All it achieves is to expose the people who are doing it as the hateful people they are. They don't want peace. They want your blood and the blood of anyone who they wrongly believe to be responsible for this travesty to humanity.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:00 AM   #54
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What Trip said. When I returned home from Desert Storm I was injured( again) and refused admission into my place of worship. Why, because while my family was in good standing in the congregation, I was in a dress uniform the very first day back...
Since then I don't need a Temple to pray in.

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:30 PM   #55
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I brought up Kent State because it was a gamechanger, it wasnt violent perse, the punks werent trying to hurt anyone until the shooting started although it certainly was physical when they tried to take over the campus. Citizens and Government were completely out of sync with each other, nobody listening, everyone yelling and big brother decided to put his foot down, innocent folks were executed trying to stop the few bad apples (See Drones for the modern day application of this same tactic). Uncle Sam taking armed citizen soldiers and putting them up against those they loathed to begin with was a recipe for disaster.

The lines they blurred then crossed that day have created a backlash ripple effect throughout our nation for nearly 40 years. All these years later, the Vietnam War is still a full blown protest that never ended. Those protestors are now our elected representatives and the things they feared back then are the things they are slowly eliminating from all of us today. I remember the images of those riots and if I hadnt lived both sides of the fence, I might react the same as they are today.

I stand in solidarity with those who stand for the only thing that makes us all equal, our Constitution and BOR's. All other things are situational and will get due scrutiny before I commit. Revolution is in the air, you can smell it; one would have to be blind and senseless not to see the warning signs. Revolution doesnt have to mean war but if we dont get our crap together soon, it could easily end up that way.

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Old 07-29-2013, 02:36 PM   #56
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What Trip said. When I returned home from Desert Storm I was injured( again) and refused admission into my place of worship. Why, because while my family was in good standing in the congregation, I was in a dress uniform the very first day back...
Since then I don't need a Temple to pray in.
Good Lord, man! What church did you go to????

In all of our local churches, (except the Unitarians, maybe) service member in uniforms are welcomed as heroes. I can't imagine a Christian church or Jewish Synagogue doing that.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:07 PM   #57
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Good Lord, man! What church did you go to????

In all of our local churches, (except the Unitarians, maybe) service member in uniforms are welcomed as heroes. I can't imagine a Christian church or Jewish Synagogue doing that.
A "temple" with a very Nasty & stubborn Rabbi who did not understand, and who was a "Draft Dodger". My Parents and several others got him removed from the position. Even after a "conference" with the Sr, Rabbi for NYC area this man was determined to keep me out(found out he was a C.O. during Vietnam and went to Canada to avoid the draft after Rabbinical School(at that time education in a school or religion was not considered a reason for being "Non-Draftable- not until 1967 I think) If I wore my Uniform. He was replaced by a Rabbi who was a Navy Reservist and Jewish Chaplin!
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:11 AM   #58
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I brought up Kent State because it was a gamechanger, it wasnt violent perse, the punks werent trying to hurt anyone until the shooting started although it certainly was physical when they tried to take over the campus. Citizens and Government were completely out of sync with each other, nobody listening, everyone yelling and big brother decided to put his foot down, innocent folks were executed trying to stop the few bad apples (See Drones for the modern day application of this same tactic). Uncle Sam taking armed citizen soldiers and putting them up against those they loathed to begin with was a recipe for disaster.

The lines they blurred then crossed that day have created a backlash ripple effect throughout our nation for nearly 40 years. All these years later, the Vietnam War is still a full blown protest that never ended. Those protestors are now our elected representatives and the things they feared back then are the things they are slowly eliminating from all of us today. I remember the images of those riots and if I hadnt lived both sides of the fence, I might react the same as they are today.

I stand in solidarity with those who stand for the only thing that makes us all equal, our Constitution and BOR's. All other things are situational and will get due scrutiny before I commit. Revolution is in the air, you can smell it; one would have to be blind and senseless not to see the warning signs. Revolution doesnt have to mean war but if we dont get our crap together soon, it could easily end up that way.
I wasn't around when Kent state happened but that whole thing just confuses the hell out of me. The kids are always portrayed as the victims but I've never understood that. They were trying to vandalize an ROTC building and they were screwing with people that had guns. What did they think happened when you screw with people with guns? Did they think flowers were going to come out of those barrels?

For me this isn't any sort of political thing. It's a common sense thing. Don't throw rocks at people with guns.
Don't try to destroy property that is being protected by people with guns.
Don't make people with guns feel like they are trapped by a mob.
Don't look shocked if someone gets shot while screwing with people with guns.

I don't think I'll ever understand what everyone was out raged by. I'm out raged that kids that stupid where in college. I had pretty much figured out that you don't screw with people with guns by elementary school. Those were college kids and they didn't know that????
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Old 08-11-2013, 11:43 AM   #59
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I wasn't around when Kent state happened but that whole thing just confuses the hell out of me. The kids are always portrayed as the victims but I've never understood that. They were trying to vandalize an ROTC building and they were screwing with people that had guns. What did they think happened when you screw with people with guns? Did they think flowers were going to come out of those barrels?

For me this isn't any sort of political thing. It's a common sense thing. Don't throw rocks at people with guns.
Don't try to destroy property that is being protected by people with guns.
Don't make people with guns feel like they are trapped by a mob.
Don't look shocked if someone gets shot while screwing with people with guns.

I don't think I'll ever understand what everyone was out raged by. I'm out raged that kids that stupid where in college. I had pretty much figured out that you don't screw with people with guns by elementary school. Those were college kids and they didn't know that????
I was in the National Guard for 17 years and while we knew we were the front line for Civil disturbance Situations, few of us looked forward to taking up arms against our neignbors. Kent State was an all out shootfest and innocent bystanders were killed in the skirmish, folks that had nothing to do with the takeover of Kent.

At the time this happened, National Guard folks were being shipped to Nam and draft dodgers were hiding in Colleges like Kent across the nation. The dynamic of mixing these two factions up on a pseudo battlefield was just a clash in the making.

After this happened, the use of Guard and Reserve Units for local responses to CD were highly discouraged to avoid this type of anger response.
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Old 08-11-2013, 02:27 PM   #60
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I was in the National Guard for 17 years and while we knew we were the front line for Civil disturbance Situations, few of us looked forward to taking up arms against our neignbors. Kent State was an all out shootfest and innocent bystanders were killed in the skirmish, folks that had nothing to do with the takeover of Kent.

At the time this happened, National Guard folks were being shipped to Nam and draft dodgers were hiding in Colleges like Kent across the nation. The dynamic of mixing these two factions up on a pseudo battlefield was just a clash in the making.

After this happened, the use of Guard and Reserve Units for local responses to CD were highly discouraged to avoid this type of anger response.
I understand the politics of the time and all of the things people were out ragged by. I just don't get Kent state being an issue? For me that was never a political thing it was always a common sense thing, and those students were obviously lacking in that. As for the innocent by standers, don't stand around while stupid people are screwing with people with guns.
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