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Old 02-19-2012, 02:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by erikthebald

Sure, blame the environmentalists. I mean let's face it, all they want is to make sure that what remains of our natural world isn't completely raped by the capitalists. I'm always a little shocked to see this kind of attitude from someone who would fight for their second amendment rights. Where will we shoot? Where will we hunt, if the environment takes second place to profit.

Maybe you just don't care as long as it's someone else's back yard. More oil is not the answer and anyone with even the meanest intelligence level should be able to grasp that.
The green movement has been hijacked in every front. "All they want to do is make sure our natural world isn't completly raped by the capitalist." I'm certain you are sitting very comfortably in a 72 degree room with your azz planted in a chair you bought from a capitolist store owner. HIPPYCRITS go occupy something you worked for.
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:19 PM   #22
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The Greens are all so antigun and antihunting antifishing antihuman etc. How in the Hell are you going hunting in an electric car that has a range of 30 miles. Where are you going to get a firearm that was not made in a gas fired foundry? Where are you going to get smokless powder that isn't made from petro chemicals. Don't Pee down my back and tell me its raining, Greens are not our friends.

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Old 02-19-2012, 02:32 PM   #23
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The bottom line is oil is running out, and will run out. Few people question that.

To answer when that will happen would need a crystal ball. 25 years? I will be dead, and it won't matter to me. 50 years? Many here will still be alive and it will matter greatly to them unless we develop workable and affordable alternatives. Long before the oil runs out, it will only be affordable for the very rich. When I was in the service I bought gasoline for $.19.9/gallon, a lot less than bottled water today. The pipeline will not extend the "drop-dead" date, but it will create a lot of profits for the investors. In 25 years the pipeline will be an albatros on the back of the American people. If the pipe line has a catastrophic failure it could poison the water supply for milllions of people. That would not be a 25-50 year disaster, but potentially hundreds of years. Oil sands and pipelines just are not the answer to anything but quick and dirty profits.

Now is the time for us to develop the alternatives. We are going to have to get over our addiction to oil, we might as well start now. When we become energy independent (which we can) The nation will no longer be hostage to Third World dictators and folks like OPEC and mega giants like BP. As long as energy prices are kept low by "quick fixes", there is not incentive to invest in the future. To people in their 20s, twenty-five years seems like an eternity, but let me tell you, it will pass a lot faster than you think. You are the folks who need to be fighting like hell for sustainable alternatives. It is folks my age who will reap the benefits of "quick fixes", profits now, the pain comes after we are gone.

I am not a "tree hugger" or someone who rides a bicycle to work. I drive 90 miles round trip to work five days a week, so it is to my benefit to have all of the quick fixes working in my favor. There are no jobs where I am, and no public transportation to where I work, so I am using up the younger generations supply of cheap gas.

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Old 02-19-2012, 03:03 PM   #24
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Why did obama drastically cut hydrogen fuel cell funding? No major obama bundlers in the industry?

http://www.autoobserver.com//2009/05/energy-department-slashes-hydrogen-transportation-funding-in-proposed-budget.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/obama-fundraisers-ties-green-firms-federal-cash/story?id=14592626

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Old 02-19-2012, 03:51 PM   #25
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If I were dictator (and that is what it would take) I would increase the federal gasoline tax $.25 each quarter for the next ten years, with an exemption to commercial carriers. With the billions raised I would support the capital investments of companies with proven innovations that would work in the real world. All support would go to companies with 100% American work force, 100% American materials and 100% American ownership only. No more money going to desert kingdoms that could stay at home.

Fuel saved would go into the federal strategic reserve.
A program like this would cut our use of foreign oil, force us to conserve, create demand for public transportation, increase our national independence and security. It would also send people scrambling to develop alternatives for the sake of the almighty profit.

There is no need, even today, for anyone with a roof to not, at least, create their own hot water for free. (a large source of home energy consumption) Within ten years we should be able to create our own power on the roof as well, and drive electric vehicles also powered by photovoltaic systems. [I] The reason this is not happening is that it would cut into the profits of the Oil monopolies. Mulitnational companies don't care a damn thing about the people or the nation. They would starve Americans of fuel if they could get a dime a gallon more in China or India, and it will come to that soon. You are already seeing the competition from these countries raising you gasoline rate at a unsustainable rate.

If we don't head the energy problems off at the pass we will become a second rate nation by the time many here retire. (or wish to retire) We won't be able to drill, or pipe our way around this problem. The oil companies spend billions on advertising and lobbying to sustain their gravy train. Don't let them fool you. We are going to run out, the only question is will we be prepared for it or not.

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Old 02-19-2012, 03:54 PM   #26
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There is no real data outside the anti American Socialist movement that can show we are running out of Petro Chems. We have natural gas reserves that are larger than all the worlds oil reserves. The new emerging world economies are developing their oil and gas. We follow the Euro-Socialist model that has broke Europe. China and India have growing industry. The "Greens" scream gloom and Doom as we slide toward a self induced "Back to the Caves economy". Are you better off today with the Left Wing driven energy limited economy? The good jobs at Ford and GMC have been replaced by selling products made in China at your local Walmart. Our schools teach fear, risk taking is a failed movement. The best to hope for is a welfare check.

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Old 02-19-2012, 04:52 PM   #27
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http://youtu.be/p_cFi_kKbJM

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Old 02-19-2012, 06:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downsouth View Post
The green movement has been hijacked in every front. "All they want to do is make sure our natural world isn't completly raped by the capitalist." I'm certain you are sitting very comfortably in a 72 degree room with your azz planted in a chair you bought from a capitolist store owner. HIPPYCRITS go occupy something you worked for.
I keep my home at 61 degrees. I drive fewer than 30 miles per week.

I left home at 15 and have had a paying job every day in the 27 years since then.

I have never accepted a single nickel of assistance from anyone in that same time frame. I wonder if you can say the same, though I honestly doubt it.

I think that entitles me to an opinion. Be careful who you're calling a Hippy friend. Most hippies don't stockpile ammunition.

This is the problem with you right wingers. Someone voices a dissenting opinion, i.e. uses their brain to draw their own conclusions instead of just swallowing the party line, and you start with the name calling.
I'd stepped away from this board for a while but got an email the other day inviting me back.

To the admins, next time don't bother. Small minded little jerks like the d-bag that I quoted at the top of this post are the reason I won't be back to this forum.
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:00 PM   #29
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I think a large part of the problem is that people see it in extremes. Either we have plenty of oil that Obama is preventing us from accessing and the alternative energy potential is pie in the sky. Or the oil is running out, causing Global Warming and alternative energy is our only way out of the mess (if that will even work!).

Truth is it lies somewhere in the broad middle (my libertarian side is showing through). We need to bring our energy sources within our borders with American companies. At the same time we need to promote and develop alternative energy supplies. If the oil holds out for another 100 years or so, the reduced demand would only serve to bring the prices down for the consumer and extend the the supply of oil further off into the future. Who knows? If the US plays its cards right the next Cold War will be over oil supply, not nukes. In that scenario the War would be driven by commercial industrial development rather than military industrial spending (which proved to be a dead end in reality, even though some technology was developed that benefits the consumer). Already GE and Boeing have seen the error of their ways in offshoring ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/13/us-usa-manufacturing-onshoring-idUSTRE81C1B720120213 ) How would the Cold War have turned out had it been profitable for our country? The fact is energy technology is a profitable capitalist industry that can be sold to other countries without fear of worldwide destruction (unlike nuclear weapons). Personally I feel that we would be far better off as a nation if we fought a war in the free market for energy than our current tactic of fighting foreign wars with our troops which is just flushing lives and money down the toilet for the most part (this is not in any way meant to disrespect our troops, I have great respect and offer my deepest thanks to our troops. It is the politicians who send them into battle that I have my differences with).

"Green Energy" is viable and needs to be developed further. To do otherwise would be suicide. Solar energy is a valuable technology that has been known for over 100 years, and first became available to the general public almost 50 years ago. I have a buddy who built his house off-grid in 1972 and installed solar in 1974. He still has many of those first solar panels in his system and they are still producing electricity (although they have degraded some over the years). Just a few months ago Sunpower Corp. traded him several of his old panels for brand new Sunpower panels that are producing double so that they could use the old panels in researching how to make their panels more better. Sunpower is headquartered near here in San Jose, CA., and has built a manufacturing plant just up the road from their headquarters in Milpitas ( http://www.cleanenergyauthority.com/solar-energy-news/sunpower-shows-manufacturing-methods-to-media-072011/ ).

I have installed a Sunpower PV system on my home that produces enough electricity to power our home and two rentals every year. It will "pay for itself" (meaning that I am offsetting the annual average cost of electricity I have historically paid) in just 3 to 5 years at which point I will not be paying anything for my electricity (yet I will still be able to charge the rentals for their energy usage and make a profit on my investment). I plan on replacing my current propane water heater with a rooftop solar water heater ( http://www.solahart.com.au/ ) in the future as well, further reducing my annual energy usage. I also hope that at some point in the future some manufacurer (hopefully a domestic manufacturer) will be producing an electric pickup truck like the one I currently drive daily (a Nissan Frontier) which I will be charging with an additional solar PV system. The electric truck will only be used for daily driving as I drive less than 60 miles a day on average. Current affordable electric cars have a range of about 70 miles or so depending on the driver and driving conditions, by aforementioned buddy has an electric Leaf that he has driven for over 70 miles with 20 or so miles left in the battery bank. He lives in the mountains and drives down into the valley on most of his longer trips. Potential mileage will only increase as battery technology progresses, case in point the Tesla Model X with the 80kwh battery bank is projected to have a range between 200 and 300 miles. I will continue to drive my gas and diesel vehicles for longer trips or when I need to tow.

Anyhow, that's my take on it. Fire away Durango.

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Old 02-19-2012, 07:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikthebald View Post
Most hippies don't stockpile ammunition.
Not true at all in my experience. I know quite a few hippie socialists that stockpile guns and ammo. Pretty good folks as long as you don't get into politics with them.

Grow some thicker skin my friend, things get a little rough in these conversations but without people like you around with dissenting opinions the bastards will think they are always right! Do you want that?
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