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Old 02-16-2012, 08:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radams430
Thanks everyone, for the input. I do own a .22lr, older stevens semiauto with a scope, but forgot to mention it. That will of course be our tasty-freez gun. Unfortunately, though, the budget won't allow anything close to an ar, so I'll have to go "chainsaw" over scalpel. Looking into the nagant as a long range weapon, as I can get one for less than $100 right now. My intention is to bug outta the atlanta burbs and head to n. Ga mtns, where my grandparents have a house and land large enough for the entire family to live, farm, kill and eat. Everyone also armed better than me, too. I am having a hard time dealing with all this, as I waited until 40yrs old to see the need in considering the real possibility of a shtf situation. I also now have a wife and 3 young-uns I am having to ease into this as well. Pray for me, us, and each other...
Don't loose any confidence in your AK,you can hit a man sized target out to 200... even 300 yards with some practice and that's about all you'll be using a MBR with iron sights for in a shtf scenario IMO. Go walk out your front door,can you see in any direction further than 300 yards? Most people have to answer no,and that's normally the case except those who live in specific rural areas of the united states. Most (not all) AR fans boast about the accurateness of their AR out to 600 yards or whatever distance,all the while they (excluding military trained individuals) have never attempted a shot even close to this distance with their AR and are not capable of hitting at that distance on iron sights with any consistancy.

My point is don't let the fact that one piece of equipment has capabilities that another one doesn't have be a factor when you don't have or wont be attaining the abilities necessary to use said capabilities. Long range shooting is a learned SKILL,not something that comes with a gun.
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:44 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by radams430
One more question from the old newbie...whats the differences in the hypervelocity and subsonic rounds, and (dumb questions, I know) will they all fire and cycle in 22lr stevens?
Hypervelocity rounds are loaded to higher velocities than standard .22lr And should cycle the action of a semi-auto fine.

Subsonic rounds are loaded to slower velocities than standard .22lr. Subsonic rounds are loaded to only achieve velocities below the speed of sound to reduce the noise signature as there is addition noise when a standard velocity bullet breaks the sound barrier. Kind of like the sonic boom you hear from a jet passing the speed of sound,but on a much smaller scale. When used in conjuction with a suppressor in the case if a .22 you will often only hear the sound of the hammer hitting the primer and the bullet hitting the target. Because of the lighter powder load subsonic loads usually will not cycle a semi-auto action.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:46 AM   #13
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RAdams;
Slow but steady wins the race. Your next steps are to plan and provide for food, clothing and shelter, not more guns and ammo -- the latter are a security tool and secuity blanket. You have more than you need arms wise.

As for accuracy... Accuracy is accuracy. If the AR is accurate enough to be precise at 600 yards then it is also better at that 200 yard shot -- significantly. Isn't the idea to keep enemies beyond arms length? That's a little harder to do with the AK, a really good two-handed peasant pistol. That's what it was meant to be doctrinely. Spray and pray and expend yourself for the Motherland with a cheap mass-producible, almost disposeable, machine pistol. "course you don't have a machine gun. However, it is reliable and better than nothing. Save your money on the Mosin Nagant -- you need it for other things.

How about losing the .22 and getting a .22 Mag. Basically same features and benefits but with twice the energy. At that point you could lose most everything else too...

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Old 02-17-2012, 01:02 AM   #14
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Trade the Stevens for a bolt action. It will be more accurate and handle any kind of 22 lr.

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Old 02-17-2012, 03:11 AM   #15
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RAdams;
Slow but steady wins the race. Your next steps are to plan and provide for food, clothing and shelter, not more guns and ammo -- the latter are a security tool and secuity blanket. You have more than you need arms wise.

As for accuracy... Accuracy is accuracy. If the AR is accurate enough to be precise at 600 yards then it is also better at that 200 yard shot -- significantly. Isn't the idea to keep enemies beyond arms length? That's a little harder to do with the AK, a really good two-handed peasant pistol. That's what it was meant to be doctrinely. Spray and pray and expend yourself for the Motherland with a cheap mass-producible, almost disposeable, machine pistol. "course you don't have a machine gun. However, it is reliable and better than nothing. Save your money on the Mosin Nagant -- you need it for other things.

How about losing the .22 and getting a .22 Mag. Basically same features and benefits but with twice the energy. At that point you could lose most everything else too...
I don't know about you but 4-6 moa as opposed to 2-3 moa at 200 yards is just as good for me,still well in center mass shoots. Secondly the AK isn't a "2-handed peasant pistol" its a solid battle rifle built to withstand the harsh conditions of a battlefield theater and the lack of maintenance that usually comes with battlefield conditions. I respect both platforms and where one fails the other prevails and vice versa, the AK has just as many 1-ups on the AR as the AR does on it,if not more. I guarantee any run of the mill wasr will take abuse that will cause your AR to fail and ask for more,AK's run dirty and dry and full of dirt. forget to keep your AR properly lubed (likely scenario in a SHTF situation) and it may just fail on you,leaving you with a pretty pore excuse for a club (something the AK can also do much better) . Im not saying AR's are bad choices at all for a SHTF scenario,as long as their properly taken care of they'll run great and serve the OP's purposes outstandingly. But to dismiss the AK as a "cheap,almost disposable rifle" is waaay off base and very malicious. BTW every aspect of the AK are made and designed to last, not something the AR can claim,when Eugene stoner developed the platform he intended on the magazines and other elements of the rifle to... in fact... be disposable. Your slandorous bashing of the AK is in no way helpful to the OP,and isn't a very respectable way to voice your high praise of your poodle shooter... (p.s. I've had splinters bigger than 55 grains). (oops... guess I can do it as well).

Also have to disagree with your statement to skip the mosin nagant, for under $100 dollars you can get a very accurate,high-power rifle that is ridiculously cheap (and fun) to shoot,the only people that would skip out on such a deal are snobbish gun owners who bash anything that's not the newest most tacticoolest thing **cough cough**

Oh yea and your suggestion to dump the .22lr for a .22mag is also foolish in my opininon,you cite that the .22mag is the sane benifits with double the power? Well most people buy a gun for .22lr because its
A.) Very cheap
B.) Can be found literally anywhere and everywhere

This is simply not true of the .22mag,especially when relative to the .22lr. It is also not true that the .22mag is "double the power of .22lr" when in all actuallity its only a difference of a couple hundred fps in velocity. So You basically are trading the best qualities of the .22lr for only slightly more power when the .22lr is completely capable of taking the small game you would be shooting at with either cartridge.

Your advice is poor in my opinion, and kind of snobbish considering you keep telling the OP to "dump" his current (completely capable And arguably preferable) firearms for more expensive options when he has already stated he is on a budget. And then go on to slander the other options suggested with false and extremely opinionated statements.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:00 AM   #16
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i sense some hostility on the above post

i have to agree with hockalouis ive had a 22 rugar for a long time for christmas i got a Marlin 22. Magnum bolt action,has alot more power more kick more stopping power its in my opionon a much better gun. Want advice from somone who uses a GUN TO KILL GAME i can tell the diffrence in knockin a coon out of a tree with a 10/22 from a 22 mag the mag is much more powerful i use to use just a regular 10/22 for all my hunting priorities i now use a 22.mag only problem i found is ammo is much more expensive 50 rounds for 10 dollars but i buy in bulk 500 rounds from cabelas im stockin up on full metal jackets and hollow point winchester ammo. i still trust my rugar as i have a couple thousand rounds stored for that and my girl freind loves to shoot it

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Old 02-17-2012, 07:16 AM   #17
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First of all I would advise that you do not get rid of a gun in one caliber to get one in another caliber. The wider range of firearms in various calibers you have available to you gives you the opportunity to use ammunition caches that might become available in a SHTF scenario. Personally I do not sell off firearms, but I will trade them off or sell them to replace an existing caliber. I even keep a Carcano in my collection just in case.

That having been said, for the guns that you shoot and train with regularly a thousand rounds in reserve is a good start.

For all of my guns I found that the different types of ammo perform very differently in my rifles. One rifle shoots the Winchester Power Points with great accuracy (1/2" at 50 yards) but with a different ammo it will shoot 6" "groups". With m Mini14 I have some factory ammo that will hit the dirt in front of the target where my handloads will have 3" groups at 100 yards. Unfortunately I have 2000 rounds of the dirt ammo. I am expending it to use the brass for reloads.

Some is good, more is better and too much is just right.

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Old 02-17-2012, 11:27 AM   #18
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Default .22 Mag - Twice As Nice!

I don't buy cheap guns solely because they are inexpensive, but if I did it wouldn't make me defensive nor try to sales-pitch them to others. I'll skip the AK vs. AR -- its old and tired, and the market decided the Cold War decades ago. But some mistatements need addressing.

The .22 Mag? OK, so they're not as cheap as the weakest, most common, cartridge made. Ooops, cash driving someone's position again! Low price is nice but doesn't make a cartridge inherently better -- frankly, usually its the other way around. And much can ride on the use of a firearm I hear. .22 Mag is kinda in between the .22 LR and .223 I buy. Regardless of .22 Mag being popular enough, one should plan that the ammo they own and/or carry is all they'll have to rely on. Period. But even if it weren't, a .22 LR will fire in a .22 Mag rifle as a single shot (don't try it the other way around!). Finally, others can read a darn ballistics chart for themselves. As if experience alone didn't demonstrate this... velocity increases energy EXPONENTIALLY.

-A 6" .22 Mag pistol is more powerful than the average .22 LR from a rifle.
-A .22 Mag rifle has about the same energy as a .44 Special handgun (the average .22 LR from a rifle is about that of an old .32 revolver).
-.22 Mag is twice as powerful at the muzzle as the average .22 LR
-At 100 yards a .22 Mag has the same velocity as the average .22 LR at the muzzle.

Twice as nice for two to three times the price? Yeah, I'll buy that!

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Old 02-17-2012, 01:46 PM   #19
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22mag=Twice the noise, twice the weight of ammo, twice the cost of ammo. In a survival situation, you dont want to make noise that will attract 2 legged predators. My preference would be a suppressed 22 rifle. I also have a 22 pellet gun. The only change the op should make is trade the Stevens for a bolt action. Possibly no or little out of pocket cost. He has an AK and while not the most accurate it is more capable of taking larger game if necessary. The AK is not that inaccurate and the 7.62x39 is a good round. He has a shotgun and he wants a longer range shooter. There I think he is wasting his money. He would be better off getting other survival supplies. How often will any of us need to shoot past 200 or even 300 yards?

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Old 02-18-2012, 12:25 AM   #20
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Default "Mistatements" Again?

Since you took the time to comment, friend, I would think you'd take as much time to understand the facts vs. feelings. Per your argument, a .22 Long or Short is even better then a .22 LR! LOL

Sorry, but although they are louder you should understand and compare decibels -- the .22 Mag is only immaterially louder than a .22 LR. Sound disipates exponentialy. Don't quote me on this but I seem to recall the proportions of noise were a .22 LR is 1, a .22 Mag is 3, and a .223 is 36 or something (each increase of 3 being a doubling of loudness if I'm not mistaken -- who remembers). .22 LR defenders go to this straw-man's well all the time. It is right up there with "cost," "availability," and "weight."

.22 Mags weigh about one ounce more per 50 rounds. Hello -- who cares!? And they are only a little bigger as everyone here should know.

Once again, the .22 Mag has essentially the same features and benefits of the .22 LR but with twice the power. Yeah, I'll take the saved-up pocket change and lint in the kitchen jar and splurge for that level of performance. Oh, they cost more than twice as much as .22 LR's, but my life may depend on them and mine is worth it.



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