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Old 12-14-2009, 12:10 AM   #21
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OK guys, here is another????

What does FTF mean??

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Old 12-14-2009, 12:29 AM   #22
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Default So your all against Militia's hun????

Hello all, RON L here - SERE SURPLUS



First of all, I have to mention I spent 25 years in the Miltary and Retired witha rank of Chief petty Officer/CPO! During the Clintoon years and a Few Years after, I was a member as well as Higher up in the command of a Smal local militia in the Pacific north West! Most of our members are or were Retired or Active Duty Military, Policment and many Professiona folks in many different area's of Trade! That many of you think that all militia member were and are all FAT, Slobs with NO TRAINING, NO EXPRIENCE and that SOMEHOW YOUR SUPERIOR TO THEM, IS SAD ????? If you all would recall the First "MILITIA'sS were OUR "FOUNDING FATHERS"! Many Militia members are family folks with children who care about this country and would die to defend it! Color not all those with just your opinion! Are thier radical Fring groups yes, the Premise of the "MILITIA" is FOUNDED IN OUR FREEDOM! Most Militia groups are NOT RACIST, NOR ANTI US GOVERNMENT!! The Need for Militia is ever greater today with Folks Like Obama and Reid and Peloci Running an Ever opressive goverment that needs someone to keep them in check if ever that need be? Maybe some of you all don't remember Waco, Ruby Ridge? All cases of a GOVERNMENT OUT OF CONTROL? Think for yourselves, organize yourselves into groups that will help each other! If your not comfortable calling it a MILITIA, call it what ever ya like? Know that no one can TRULY GO IT ALONE and you will need others to help in even day to day life? Prepardness, Training isn't that wat this group is all about? Then to dismiss a MILITIA due to bad press and ignorant opinions? Remeber one thing, and this is all I will say, MILITIA's NEVER WENT AWAY! They just went underground, re-sorted and re-shaped and for the need when they will be needed! I for one do not TRUST a GOV Run by these folks wth the patriot act still intact as well as a track record of opression and brutality! True training and readiness is far from what you all described and that no one seems to be willing to have even checked it out, is a sad commentary for the level of awareness that prevails here??? Sad indeed!!!!!


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Old 12-14-2009, 12:30 AM   #23
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Default OH and

OH and FTF = Face to FACE!!! Incase you still were wondering!


RON L
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:49 AM   #24
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If you are talking all gloom and doom, end of society, kind of stuff, who's going to be in a militia? I would think reasonable level headed people are going to be staying close to home. I can see armed groups, a sort of armed neighborhood watch, being needed, but that's about it. Your focus is going to be very local in these type situations. What's going on HERE? How do I feed my family TODAY? How do I keep my family SAFE?
I can't see a militia being anything more than a gang in a mass civil collapse. The concept of a militia may be good, but I don't believe it would function as advertised if truly put to the test.
If you have anything,,,,,, you and like minded people are going to stay close to protect it, i.e. armed neighborhood watch (you define your neighborhood).
If you have nothing,,,,,,, you and like minded people are going to go out looking to steal it!
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:14 AM   #25
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Default Yes , thats the point!

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RON L here - SERE SURPLUS

What your describing is that "MILITIA'S" were and are! Protection groups, that help to safe the land and the folks living there, neighbors and all helping to guard the public safety! The "HOLLYWOOD" concept of the fat, beer swilling Racist "MILITIA MEMBER" is well true in some cases but not all and not what we are talking about here?

No, they are not a GANG" they are a GROUP, that has it's purpose and if well trained and well equipt can serve a legitimate purpose! Thats how it was in 1776 and how it should be TODAY! Folks have lost thier sense of "COMMUNITY", don't know thier neighbors and seldome would help them if they needed it! Thats the principle that we are talking about, it's not th lies and hype that so many spot about MILITIA's when they have no real contafct with them or any experience of?

The idea of Protection and security is what MILITIA's were designed to do! That some went the wrong way and are useless wel that's an over simplification of the facts and if true then most AMERICANS are in sadder shape than I thought?

An Oppressive goverment, natural diasters, looting, Mass crime events all make the need for w MILITIA and that sort of TRAINING most necessary that ever before! I have my small group pof folks here who would never call them selves a MILITIA fet Train and learn and sever each others needs if the time goes on and is needed? I feel for those that can't understand the CONCEPT OR THAT NEED? Go it alone and you will Die tired?? LOL

Just my thoughts, I don't insist that I'm right, but know that in my heart what I need to do for me and mine!

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Old 12-14-2009, 02:01 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RONSERESURPLUS View Post
Hello all, RON L here - SERE SURPLUS



First of all, I have to mention I spent 25 years in the Miltary and Retired witha rank of Chief petty Officer/CPO! During the Clintoon years and a Few Years after, I was a member as well as Higher up in the command of a Smal local militia in the Pacific north West! Most of our members are or were Retired or Active Duty Military, Policment and many Professiona folks in many different area's of Trade! That many of you think that all militia member were and are all FAT, Slobs with NO TRAINING, NO EXPRIENCE and that SOMEHOW YOUR SUPERIOR TO THEM, IS SAD ????? If you all would recall the First "MILITIA'sS were OUR "FOUNDING FATHERS"! Many Militia members are family folks with children who care about this country and would die to defend it! Color not all those with just your opinion! Are thier radical Fring groups yes, the Premise of the "MILITIA" is FOUNDED IN OUR FREEDOM! Most Militia groups are NOT RACIST, NOR ANTI US GOVERNMENT!! The Need for Militia is ever greater today with Folks Like Obama and Reid and Peloci Running an Ever opressive goverment that needs someone to keep them in check if ever that need be? Maybe some of you all don't remember Waco, Ruby Ridge? All cases of a GOVERNMENT OUT OF CONTROL? Think for yourselves, organize yourselves into groups that will help each other! If your not comfortable calling it a MILITIA, call it what ever ya like? Know that no one can TRULY GO IT ALONE and you will need others to help in even day to day life? Prepardness, Training isn't that wat this group is all about? Then to dismiss a MILITIA due to bad press and ignorant opinions? Remeber one thing, and this is all I will say, MILITIA's NEVER WENT AWAY! They just went underground, re-sorted and re-shaped and for the need when they will be needed! I for one do not TRUST a GOV Run by these folks wth the patriot act still intact as well as a track record of opression and brutality! True training and readiness is far from what you all described and that no one seems to be willing to have even checked it out, is a sad commentary for the level of awareness that prevails here??? Sad indeed!!!!!


RON L
Ron,

I have several problems with some of the statements you have expressed here.

You talk about Ruby Ridge and Waco like they were planned assaults against honest people doing no harm to anyone and were minding their own business. You could not be more misguided. Ruby Ridge was a valid operation against a militant group that had violated many civil and weapons laws of our country. Weaver refused to surrender to a warrant and opened fire on 3 US Marshalls killing one, his son Sammy was killed. Yes the FBI did make mistakes and a child was killed and others, but blame must be shared by all involved the FBI and the Weavers.

Waco is another incident you have obviously not researched and are taking a slanted view of what happened. Again these were not normal everyday citizens. These were a cult of people that were stock piling illegal, I repeat illegal, weapons and refused to even attempt to abide by our societies norm and used religion as a basis of their refusal to obey the laws of our land. Again we are talking about an authorized Law Enforcement agency trying to serve a warrant for arrest and coming under automatic weapons fire all to protect one man, Koresh. By the way if you read up on Waco you will find that the induction of the CS gas was not the cause of the fire's that consumed the compound. Those fires were started within the compound by the people inside who belied Koresh was God and did as he said and killed themselves and the children.

You talk about bad press and ignorant opinions and it seems to me you fall in the same category. Not everything you read is true you should evaluate the facts that can be proved with empirical evidence, evaluate facts and make decisions on what you find. Not just one report with un-substanuated allegations and partial truths.


You state a track record of oppression and brutality, well yes we have had some incidents of these, however, I don't believe it to be the norm rather the unusual. In the scope of what we are dealing with in the world today I think we are doing a hell of a job, but opinions are like A-- holes, everyone has one.

You can have your opinion and I will have mine as that is what this country is all about. I will gladly hold my government up to scrutiny and hold them responsible for mistakes but I will not paint them with a scarlet letter with half truths and innuendo.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:48 AM   #27
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How did militias get a bad reputation? We have drug cartels strong enough to cease a city freely roaming across our border, but shame of being part of a militia? I think they should be encouraged. But peaceful, let the police do their job unless someday they prove they can't. This country is no longer so easy to survive in. U have the freemasons who are probably much more powerful than any armed militia, god knows what they do, but I think militias who are out open and proud to who they are can't be so dangerous.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:37 AM   #28
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I am too old to be involved in any Militia......I spent too much time in the REAL MILITARY when I worked for my Uncle and have had REAL quality training and practical experience in survival and military ops.

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Old 12-14-2009, 10:50 AM   #29
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Hello all, RESPONCE TO OC.,


I as well spend my 24 Years in the Military and I used a lot of my skills and Training to make the folks that I worked with as ab;le as I could, we had established gaols and Training and we worked as a working unit! The Product you get is a product of what one puts into it and I woundn't work with the sorts of folks mst here seem to think are MILITIA MEMBERS! Think old school, think whom you'd trust with your life, as you are? ecruit only QUALITY MEMBERS those who are SOLID with familiys or Goals that are NON MILITANT BUT REACTIVE? Your not all that far off the same page as I am, yet many will not want to support any group called a MILITIA? It's all a word game, call it a turnip if it makes ya feel better but do something while others sit by wand watch the wqorld go to crap around them?

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Old 12-14-2009, 11:16 AM   #30
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Helo all, RON L here - SERE SURPLUS and RESPSONCE TO DZSCUBIE

No, I don't agree with your PREMISE that WACO and RUBY RIDGE WERE "LEGITIMATE POLICE OPERATIONS", WACO was DIRECTLY UNDER JANET RENO's SUPERVISION and a PRODUCT OF WHAT NOT TO DO! The ATF, might have had a real gial of useingf the raid to show a SUCESSFULL OPERATION, the warrent was suspesious the Fact that they could have gotten Koresh who indeed neeced to be locked up and investigated a lot , was thrown to the wind then they made up the rules as they went, VIOLATED MANY OF THIER OWN RULES OF ENGAGEMENT as well as ploicys?

Ruby Ridge was a total sham as wel, when the FBI's ELITE SNIPE/Scot group or what ever they called them, did as poor hoework on RANDY WEAVER, BOTCHED THE INSERTION INTO HIS land and shot a DOG and a CHILD who saw his dog shot and killed was a MESS! Then, Weaver who should have not done what he did, should have turned himself is, was part of the PROBLEM FOR SURE, BUT NOT THE MAIN FAULT IN THIS MESS! The atributed weaver to be a GREEn BEANIE when he was harly more than a CLERK, the charges against him were a pure case of ENTRAPMENT, and HE (WEAVER) should have been smart enought not to break the law like that and work with dubious folks! The FEDS worked his case to get intell on a few Bad parties and had he cooperated he would not have had charges at all! You need to look at all the FACTS not just what the FBI and POLICE said on RUBY RIDGHE as well as WACO! BOTH ACTIONS were BOTCHED, POOLY EXECUTED and with RUBY RIDGE the AGENTS INVOLVED AGRRED THE CHANGED THE RULES OF ENGAGEMT AS THEY SAW FIT! Even Lefting *******s like Dianie Feinstine and barbra Boxer neither hardly MILITIA SUPPORTERS said all thatw as done wrong and a violation of the law! I agree BOTH WEAVER and KORESH WERE I THE WRONG, BUT ALOSO WERE MANY MEMBERS OF THE ATF AND FBI! I don't but the NOTION that it was all the Weavers fault nor the BRANCH DIVIDIANS! ALL HERE SHARED I THE WRONG DOING and when COPS and LAW ENFORCEMENT BREAK THE LAW, thats NOT a LEGITIMATE POLICE ACTION!

I fought and served for too long in the MILKITARY to see us turn the USAS into a Sham like CUBA or N KOERA and yes, while ISOLATED INCIDENTS BOTH WACO and RUBY RIDGE demonstraited a POLICY as well as a Leadership in the White hose that agreed with stepping on our rights and limiting our freedoms, thats not a DEM thing, it's a CROOKED POLITICIAN!

Thanks for agreeing that I have a RIGHT T MY OWN OPINION, as you do as well no matter how right or wrong we BOTH might be! I see it as a contunited RESPONSIBILITY I HAVE AS AN AMERICAN to DIS-TRUST a GOVERMENT THAT ACTS OUT IN KIND! I join such "RADICAL'S" as BEN FRANKLIN, GEOGRE WASHINTON and THOMAS JEFFERSON in thiat belief?

You have a Right to your OPINION, as I do and I hope that you really don't believe all that you said? "TO IGNORE HISTORY is to see it repeated"?

Think for a MOMENT that a PRESIDENT LIKE OBAMA, who wants to NATONALIZE and SOCALIZE ALL MATTERS IN THE US would not use wrongfull MILITARY or police action against those that oppose them? If so then I feel for you and oythers that I feel JUST DON'T GET IT! I hated the PATRIOT ACT UNDER BUSH, yet, saw a need for it and saw it executed with caution, the same ACT in the hands of OBAMA, REID and PELOCI, well thats just plain scary?

We all NEED TO WAKE UP and do something to see it not slide into the crapper, a small thing yes, but each of us do our own training, prep our own groups, protect our own folks thats a lot better than trusting to chance or FEMA or folks that DO NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTREST AT HEART!

Do what ya like, I know I am and I make no APPOLOGIES FOR IT! I am not breaking the law, but nor am I sticking my head into the sand!!!!



I am not ignoring what I see as the truth, you see your version, I see mine and I know ahat GOVERNMENT is CAPABLE OF, as I was a BIG PART OF IT for 25 years! What we did in other countries we would do here, fail to see that and your ignoring facts! I TRUSY those that HAVE EARNED IT! NONE IN DC or HOUSE Or SENATE FIT THE DESCRIPTION! Perhaps you feel different? They AL are not to be trusted and should ALL BE REPLACED! TERM LIMITS, VOTE OUT THE BAD SEED and not just sit back and let it all happen? Can it be fixed, I have my DOUBTS, should it be opposed and Try to fix, YES!


RON
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