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Old 03-14-2012, 12:31 PM   #41
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If we have real SHTF, a neo-feudal model will probably work the best in the short term until rule of law is re-established.

Food, water, shelter, and protection are going to be primary concerns. If you have the guns, find a farmer who needs your protection.
this is probably why i dont make much sense when discussing these topics. you are absolutely correct scott in the theory of priorities. but i can not relate to the solutions that are presented by majority of the fellas that discuss this when most of all of you live in rural, wooded, farmland etc, or close nit neighborhoods in a not to dense residential area. not to say thats not what will happen and thats everybodys situation, but i just cant see it happening to the rest of us who live in the deep city.

Growing up i had to drive 30 miles, at the least, to get to a place where 1 house had enough land to be considered seperate from each other. my "land" consisted of a 10' x 10' patch of grass and the neighbors house was separated by nothing but a driveway. In the south i know this isnt much of a big deal, im sure you can probably name what after school program your neighbors kids have. i can assure you in 90% of the cities i have been in/lived in the basic premise of life is "dont bother me, i wont bother you, keep your mind off my business and my name out your mouth and we will get along". And this just isnt from me, my city boy brethren come down here and visit me, they are off put and often ask "why the hell does everyone ask me how im doin? the *** do they want?"

No matter the collapse you envision, you predict the fact people will get crazy, violent, panic, whatever. But the point i seem to keep from explaining is in my world, im going to have to traverse 30-40 miles, by foot, with whats on my back, through streets, parking lots, across industrial complexes, major hiways, and then after dodging neighborhoods like mine, where they are just waiting for the end of common law, i might, just might, be able to find a farmer who needs my protection.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:13 PM   #42
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How would farmers carry on the over production needed to feed other people. No fertilizer no tractor fuel or electric. No water for crops. Where would you get seed? With out treated hybred seed you would produce damn little. If you had crops how many hungry people would you have to kill each year to protect it? Before modern farming people starved to death? The American NDNs suffered from starvation and they were born into a primitve life.:confused.

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Old 03-14-2012, 01:16 PM   #43
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If SHTF does come about, the last place you will want to be is in a large metropolitan area. Small town America where everyone knows each other and can band together is probably the best place to be. If that happens, I'll probably gather up all my stuff and we'll head over to my parent's place in Geneseo 30 miles from here. And if it really gets bad, I wonder just how much of a fortress Springfield Armory and Armalite can turn that town into.

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Old 03-14-2012, 01:18 PM   #44
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How would farmers carry on the over production needed to feed other people. No fertilizer no tractor fuel or electric. No water for crops. Where would you get seed? With out treated hybred seed you would produce damn little. If you had crops how many hungry people would you have to kill each year to protect it? Before modern farming people starved to death? The American NDNs suffered from starvation and they were born into a primitve life.:confused.
I know a lot of farmers. They are as a group the most resourceful people I know. I would have more confidence in them than any other group in society.

And at least around here, we get all the irrigation we need from the sky.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:33 PM   #45
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Iowa suffered droughts big time in the 1930s and 1980s. The reason we can control these dry seasons now we can divert water. In the over populated midwestern states farmers will starve along with everyone else.

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Old 03-14-2012, 01:57 PM   #46
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If SHTF does come about, the last place you will want to be is in a large metropolitan area.
im just sayin some of us dont have that choice brother. plus im going to have to go get family members, meah, im splitting hairs at this point.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:58 PM   #47
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Iowa suffered droughts big time in the 1930s and 1980s. The reason we can control these dry seasons now we can divert water. In the over populated midwestern states farmers will starve along with everyone else.
Well as someone who lives here and has traveled through the corn and soybean fields on a regular basis for over 30 years. I can assure you that irrigation equipment around here is pretty rare.

There are some farms that do have it, but it is a factor of soil makeup rather than the area's climate. The sandier soils do sometimes need irrigation, but those are in localized areas.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:22 PM   #48
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This horse is getting well beaten. But when Iowa has a big killer dry spell like in the 30s and 80s other states with water can keep everyone from starving. we depend on transportation to move goods where they are needed. In this "Mad Max" world this would not be possible. And the fields of corn and beans would not exist with out treated drought resistant seeds and nitrogen fertilizer. Just getting a gun and some rice and beans will not likely carry you thru this fantasy end of time world.

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Old 03-14-2012, 10:00 PM   #49
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im just sayin some of us dont have that choice brother. plus im going to have to go get family members, meah, im splitting hairs at this point.

Fortification is probably out of the question for you, but you will still need a fortification of some sort at some point. I live in a tiny city by your standards but it's still a city with all of the vulnerabilities of a city. I know my current home would not be defendable. I'm sure a lot of people with homes similar to mine believe that their homes are defendable? So I would have to leave as well if something really bad happened. Fortunately for me I grew up in the country in this area and have family close by in the country. I have many areas with really low population density close by as well that I could go to, but then what? That's what got me to thinking about this. I need a place to go to and then stay there. That means something defendable and that means fortification. So a future goal for me is to have a place that not only has enough land that allows me to be much more self sufficient but something that is also defendable. I won't have to go far to do that. I'm not sure what someone in a large city would need to do?
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:19 PM   #50
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I'm not sure what someone in a large city would need to do?
thank you, i have been asking that for a long long time now. the only conclusion that i come up with is what i did as a young punk kid in the city, feed off the people. scam, sell, steal, lie, cheat to get what i want. thats why i love the bunker idea. go ahead, build it big, spacious, and safe, i know how to get you out. let me buy or trade services for goods, or i can do away with you and take all i want, your choice.

i usually get "well, secure a spot in the country." and i plan on it once i sell my yacht and winter home in maui. oh and that private country club/golf course membership. harsh times these days.
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