Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com

Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/)
-   Survival & Sustenance Living Forum (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f51/)
-   -   Fortification? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f51/fortification-60100/)

TLuker 03-13-2012 12:24 AM

Fortification?
 
This came up in another thread and it got my attention because this is something Iíve been struggling with. There were several good arguments in the other thread against fortification, and I agree 100% with the points made. Iím not planning on following the example set by the folks at the Alamo. My problem is that I canít see any viable alternative to fortification.

Staying mobile could work for a while for a lone individual but it wouldnít work for a family. You would be too vulnerable and too exposed while moving (not to mention where are you going?). Thereís also the issue of food for a family. You will have to have food to feed a family and that means having things. In order to continue to have things you would have to be able to defend those things. At some point you would also need to grow some new things and then youíre not going anywhere, and you would have to defend those crops 24/7. You would end with a fortification.

There are some situations where you would have no choice but to leave, and in a hurry. But assuming a social collapse (and youíre not living in an urban area), there really wouldnít be anywhere to go. No matter what you will inevitably end up with a fortification.

So how could you make fortification work without it tuning into a last stand? Or what alternative would there be?

downsouth 03-13-2012 12:55 AM

I think you have hit on the big issue of prepping. I would think you could have a fall back position with cached goods depending on the local topography. If you lived in a small community with enough like minded people maybe you could have a suitable position.

I struggle with the idea of defending a place. I guess it would be much akin to building a sandcastle at the beach in a way. You build it away from the threat and as strong as you can. Eventually the tide will come in an wipe out your efforts. For me the whole fortress situation would depend on how big the "tide" would be. Who knows that when you are preparing. IMHO

md1911 03-13-2012 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downsouth
I think you have hit on the big issue of prepping. I would think you could have a fall back position with cached goods depending on the local topography. If you lived in a small community with enough like minded people maybe you could have a suitable position.

I struggle with the idea of defending a place. I guess it would be much akin to building a sandcastle at the beach in a way. You build it away from the threat and as strong as you can. Eventually the tide will come in an wipe out your efforts. For me the whole fortress situation would depend on how big the "tide" would be. Who knows that when you are preparing. IMHO

I agree no matter how well you build and plan a fortified position it can be overcome. I like fallback position and supply catches. I would also suggeste multiple escape routes. Not even a mouse trust's having one hole.

Soliferrum 03-13-2012 01:41 AM

i just dont understand why people build bunkers or horde their house. or put all their food in the basement of the house. "we have enough food to survive for 4 years, as of now." thats good cause chances are you will only use 1 years worth before youre raided.

TLuker 03-13-2012 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliferrum (Post 738335)
i just dont understand why people build bunkers or horde their house. or put all their food in the basement of the house. "we have enough food to survive for 4 years, as of now." thats good cause chances are you will only use 1 years worth before youre raided.

I agree but what's the alternative? I'm thinking at some point you would have to make a stand and fight or you would never have anything. The question then becomes how, when, and where? Personally I would want to do it from a fortress, and at a very long distance.

partdeux 03-13-2012 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliferrum (Post 738335)
thats good cause chances are you will only use 1 years worth before youre raided.

In a true SHTF, 1 month at best.

Reading the Bosnian blog RW experience was eye opening... we have no idea.

Soliferrum 03-13-2012 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLuker (Post 738500)
I agree but what's the alternative? I'm thinking at some point you would have to make a stand and fight or you would never have anything. The question then becomes how, when, and where? Personally I would want to do it from a fortress, and at a very long distance.

i agree you will have to fight, but stand? i guess i should clear up the "fort" im thinkin of is a family that has barricaded themselves in their house. But if the fort is an actual fort complete with a large group of like minded individuals complete with farms and a leadership cast...thats a bit of a different level. in that case, bring ammo and a skill, enjoy post apocalyptic life.

Soliferrum 03-13-2012 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partdeux (Post 738511)
In a true SHTF, 1 month at best.

Reading the Bosnian blog RW experience was eye opening... we have no idea.

i actually gave a year to be optimistic and break the news to the preppers easy. my entire life has been spent in an urban area, when the laws of reason give way, the madness will come out. and you are right, the idea people have is no where even close to whats to come.

TLuker 03-13-2012 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliferrum (Post 738528)
i agree you will have to fight, but stand? i guess i should clear up the "fort" im thinkin of is a family that has barricaded themselves in their house. But if the fort is an actual fort complete with a large group of like minded individuals complete with farms and a leadership cast...thats a bit of a different level. in that case, bring ammo and a skill, enjoy post apocalyptic life.

That's more along the lines of what I've got in mind. But even then fixed fortification is dangerous. I just can't think of any alternative.

WillFire 03-13-2012 03:42 AM

The problem with the stay-or-go argument is the assumption that you can go. If there is no electricity, finding fuel of any kind is a pipe dream. What then?
Where can you drive to (until fuel is expended), then where can you walk?
Unless you have a destination, you are at the mercy I where your fuel and ability to move ends (injury, sickness, etc.).
I see three basic choices: You can hope that where you "end up" will be good, stay put and fight, or plan on making it to a spot (with like minded people/family) and hunker down. IMHO

Si vis pacem, para bellum


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:16 AM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.