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Old 12-07-2009, 12:08 AM   #21
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3 feet of packed dirt, among other things, should do the job....

Radiation protection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 12-07-2009, 01:51 AM   #22
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Default From the US Gov't



Bert the turtle says "Just Duck & Cover!"
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:23 PM   #23
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I agree that gamma is cannot be stopped 100.0000000%- but is can be degraded. A rate of 2400 is very hot- but the emission rate of fallout decays fairly rapidly (in relation to the decay of Plutonium, ANYTHING decays rapidly!). Our shelter area has a minimum of 4 feet of soil, 12 inches of concrete, and 10 ft of air space. I am not seeking shielding from being directly beneath a 1 MT device, but being in the fallout stream downwind.

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Old 12-07-2009, 02:47 PM   #24
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I agree that gamma is cannot be stopped 100.0000000%- but is can be degraded. A rate of 2400 is very hot- but the emission rate of fallout decays fairly rapidly (in relation to the decay of Plutonium, ANYTHING decays rapidly!). Our shelter area has a minimum of 4 feet of soil, 12 inches of concrete, and 10 ft of air space. I am not seeking shielding from being directly beneath a 1 MT device, but being in the fallout stream downwind.
2400 cGy is figured at 3/4 miles from a 20Kt detonation. Obviously the larger the yield the higher the initial dose rate.

But yeah. You would be good, because fallout is primarily alpha and beta.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:03 PM   #25
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3/4 miles from a 20Kt detonation
ANY nuke that is 3/4 of a mile from MY house is a SERIOUS error in targeting! We are in the country, about 40 miles from a metro or industrial area.

Of course, the old joke about the ideal defense against the detonation of a nuclear device is that, when the detonation takes place, you must be in a location where the question, "Did you hear something?" is answered, "Nope."
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:06 PM   #26
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I hear ya. I was merely illustrating that a rather small warhead could produce a good amount of gamma at a fairly good distance. I believe that was for a ground burst.

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Old 12-09-2009, 02:29 AM   #27
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Fall out shelters? Has this country regresses to the rampant paranoia of the fifties when everyone and his brother were building bomb shelters? Have people subscribed to the manufactured fears promulgated by the media and the right wing oracles of doom? Who do we have to arm ourselves against? Certainly there are bad guys out there but what are the chances that one might run into one? For too damn many years I worked the mean streets of a major metropolitan center and yes there are real dangers lurking around every corner that a person is wise to protect him or herself against there. Out side of places like that violence is a random act and the average citizen’s chances of encountering it are minuscule. At the age of 72 what I fear most is the malignant stupidity that engulfs this nation today. I also fear the drunken drivers and the Dirty Harry want-to-be who insists on carrying a hand cannon as they go about their daily lives. I fear those who believe, deep in their hearts, that everyone else should think, believe, live and act as they do.
oracles of doom?
-105 trillion in debt
-Massive jobs lost
-Czars that are not voted for by anyone and are seemingly above the law AND have verbally threatened members of the liberal party to vote for bills they have not read.
-Our governments continued and increasing support of terrorist groups
-Transparency... of... what?
-massive take overs of virtually every segment of our country
-The large number of individuals that believe in the philosophy of Moa that are in the inner circles of our government (that means they're willing to stick a gun in your face to make you do what they want)
-destruction of huge amounts of farmland because they won't give up the water
... And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

That's all fact my friend. I agree with you that there's a lot of crap on the news, but the facts remain.

Ever heard of the Global Food Security Act?
Past the house after a little over an hour of debate and is now on the way to the senate.
It'll make the FDA bigger than the EPA.
It'll also require anyone that produces any kind of food to register with the federal government and pay $1000. So, if you have a garden in your backyard, I hope you have a spare grand laying around.

...and again, that's only the tip of the iceberg of that act.

The governments coming for everything you've got. I just don't want you to be shocked when they've done it behind your back and right under your nose.

So what should we be prepared for? The answer is simple; everything.
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:29 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by LotzORemmies View Post
oracles of doom?
-105 trillion in debt
-Massive jobs lost
-Czars that are not voted for by anyone and are seemingly above the law AND have verbally threatened members of the liberal party to vote for bills they have not read.
-Our governments continued and increasing support of terrorist groups
-Transparency... of... what?
-massive take overs of virtually every segment of our country
-The large number of individuals that believe in the philosophy of Moa that are in the inner circles of our government (that means they're willing to stick a gun in your face to make you do what they want)
-destruction of huge amounts of farmland because they won't give up the water
... And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

That's all fact my friend. I agree with you that there's a lot of crap on the news, but the facts remain.

Ever heard of the Global Food Security Act?
Past the house after a little over an hour of debate and is now on the way to the senate.
It'll make the FDA bigger than the EPA.
It'll also require anyone that produces any kind of food to register with the federal government and pay $1000. So, if you have a garden in your backyard, I hope you have a spare grand laying around.

...and again, that's only the tip of the iceberg of that act.

The governments coming for everything you've got. I just don't want you to be shocked when they've done it behind your back and right under your nose.

So what should we be prepared for? The answer is simple; everything.
Please provide me with the empirical truths of what you allege. The rhetoric of others in no way qualifies as empirical truth.

Ask yourself how many of the problems this country faces today are the direct result of what has happened in previous years. Our economy did not go into the toilet in the last year but is directly the result of deregulation by previous administrations and the cumulating of government policies that solely benefited corporate interests and the upper two percent of our citizens. Realize that the policies of FDA, USDA and the EPA are formulated by politicians to the benefit of the special interest groups within their districts. In my district we have a Congressman, a Democrat, that only caters to the interest of the big factory farms and to hell with the family farms and the small operators. Worry more about the producer whose crops rot in the field because he no longer has access to the labors to harvest them than the large landowners who might be striped of their water rights because they didn’t legally have them in the first place.

Prior to this last administration this country was the largest lending nation in the world and now we are the biggest debtor nation that has ever existed. Most of what we owe we owe to Communist China. I have no idea how that sits with you but it upsets me.

If you don’t call the suspending habeas corpus, illegal wire tapping and trying to get our mailpersons to spy on the people on their routes interfering with out rights I don’t know what is. When my 84 year-old sister had to take off her shoes before she could get on a plane to visit her great grandchildren things have gone to far. I guess the push for national identification cards, internal passports, was not an attempt for governmental control of our citizens.

I stand by what I have said.
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Last edited by Walley; 12-09-2009 at 01:24 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:07 PM   #29
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Our economy did not go into the toilet in the last year but is directly the result of deregulation by previous administrations.
Sir, I don't know what planet you live on but where I live (The USA) the economy went into the toilet because of over regulation not deregulation. For example Frankandodds and their minions forced the banks to issue loans they did not want and in many cases the bankers knew they would never get paid. They were forced by regulations to loan the money anyway and try to recover those funds from other sources.

There is no doubt in my mind that we have way too much government. If you believe that business in the USA has too few regulations you, Sir, are misinformed.
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:15 PM   #30
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Sir, I don't know what planet you live on but where I live (The USA) the economy went into the toilet because of over regulation not deregulation. For example Frankandodds and their minions forced the banks to issue loans they did not want and in many cases the bankers knew they would never get paid. They were forced by regulations to loan the money anyway and try to recover those funds from other sources.

There is no doubt in my mind that we have way too much government. If you believe that business in the USA has too few regulations you, Sir, are misinformed.
Please direct me to the law or regulation that forced the Financial Industry to engage in the practices that have harmed this country more than any event in history. If they do exist I have no idea where they might have been published. I think I will have to contact the Library Of Congress and try to locate them on my own. Unfortunately I am a person with an insatiable thirst for the truth and only believe what can be proved empirically.

I hope you realize that the now existing regulations in the food, pharmaceutical and other industries that affect our daily lives are there for our protection against shoddy practices and greed. I for one am glad that these regulations are in place to stop the harm that would occur if they weren’t.

After kicking around this country for over 72 years my fondest wish is for someone to tell me how to move back to the real USA.
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